Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
1) Prove it.2) Dooku can casually blast powerful force users such as Bulq unconscious with a short blast, mid-combat. Do you remember the argument you made as to why that feat wasn't so impressive? Using the same standard you used to judge Dooku's feat, I want you to explain why Vitiate's overpowering of 4 jedi with 20 seconds worth of lightning spam + another charged attack is so impressive.
1) Being infinitely more powerful than Nyriss' lightning makes him better than Dooku. Her attack was able to instantly incinerate a powerful Sith Lord even after breaking through her barriers. Vitiate overwhelmed the defense of Revan, who easily handled that level of lightning. Even her casual lightning is enough to turn two armored guards into charred husks and Vitiate is vastly more powerful than her. So even accounting a nexus Vitiate's lightning would still be infinitely greater than Dooku's.
2) And you expect me to even consider that as being remotely close to Vitiate's level of power? You expect me to not just dismiss you out of hand as obviously trolling me? If you want to ****ing whine about the fact that I kicked your ass about this same freaking topic do it to your friends on skype, don't waste my time with this horseshit.
Even if Soderu and Leeha weren't able to mount a defense for his final attack, the only reason they wouldn't be able to do so is because Vitiate was so powerful he stunned them while attacking and holding off Tol Braga and the Hero at the same time and knocking out Kira. So even with his power spread out over 5 Jedi, his casual Force Storm would be able to knock out Kira, pwn Warren and Leeha, force Tol Braga into a desperate defense and he's still able to smack back the Hero when they get close while still doing this. He showed absolutely no effort while pulling this off and the encyclopedia agrees that it was easy for him to beat them. As if Dooku could even come close to replicating that. So to answer your question it's impressive because it's an utterly unprecidented display of Force Lightning and Force Mastery far beyond what even as Sith such as Dooku could dream of pulling off.
Originally posted by Nephthyswithout the space at the end of the first one. Or copy paste the
Beni, if you want to quote a particular part of a post simply use the code [quote ]
[QUOTE =14796249]Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[B ]
part and then add
[/quote]
at the end of what you want to quote. [/B][/QUOTE]I know how... but numbers are so much easier lol, in so many ways.
Oh wow, look at the mess you made 😉
Originally posted by Beniboybling
1. My intention was never to educate you, you are beyond hope. My intention was to prevent others from being led astray into your quagmire of ignorance and stupidity.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
2. Which I accept. But you've forgotten my argument, that Yoda takes longer than Revan to gather and exert said raw power - yet despite that the extent of his raw power is infinitely greater.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
3. Examples 1 & 2 are inadequate for two reasons. Firstly as sourced from comics they are incapable of potraying passage of time in regards to Yoda's feats, they cannot display him taking time to build up power because they rely on snapshots. In one snapshot Yoda is not exerting his energy, in the next he is. What happens inbetween? We don't know.
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The second one, Yoda, is not that much different. Look below over how slow some of the panels are portrayed.
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So yeah, both of these are completely eligible. I'm rather interested on how you can even object.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And secondly they are EU canonical sources, which are surpassed by movie-canon. Because comics and the EU in general is considered by canon to be more abstract and inaccurate in its portrayal of characters.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Example 3 and 4 are ironically the example I used of a situation in which Yoda has time to gather his power. This is Yoda in his element, a non-combat situation where he can concentrate and prepare his energies in advance. And considering that we see Yoda stride up to that spot for that exact purpose, and yet still can percieve the same pauses and exaggerated motions we see in AOTC, demonstrates this.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless even if he hadn't, the above applies. This is EU-canon and trumped by movie canon. It simply cannot be used to debunk the fact that Yoda struggled to hold a bunch of rocks above him, despite what you have posted being well within his powers. Unless you can explain that particular in-discrepancy?
Perhaps you want to buy the novelization of Attack of the Clones? It shows proof that his "small hands waved and the boulders dropped to the sides."
The novelization, which has much more canonical weight then your interpretation of the movie, agrees with me. I don't really see how you can argue that he struggled.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Maybe Yoda forgot to take his painkillers that day?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Example 5 you have misinterpreted, look at how Sidious throws around the pods doolay, look how it takes a Yoda a full 10 seconds to launch just one back. Bring up the fact that he rotated it first if you like, but that only makes it insufficient proof I'm afraid as we do not know what would have happened if Yoda launched it immediately.
"...it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new Emperor."
―Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith Novelization
Originally posted by Beniboybling
4. As for the first example, I fail to see your point. Look at it in full and you can see Yoda struggles at first to absorb the lightning, despite being fully capable of reflecting it back at Sidious. But he doesn't do this immediately because it takes time to gather his energies.The second example is exactly the same Yoda starts of being almost overwhelmed by Sidious lightning, and then manages to rebound it. The fact that he could deflect the intial sparks (though poor considering he loses his lightsaber and is staggered) proves nothing.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
5. Fair enough. But unfortunately that only means they are on equal level and we have an indispensably.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
6. Movies > novels. Always. Just pointing that out. TCW makes Yoda's superiority even clearer. Though if you want to argue Sidious is superior, fine, I don't care. Yoda remains more impressive than Revan regardless I'm afraid considering he was able to push Sidious' energies back and did not suffer any burns and certainly was capable of moving.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
ROTJ Luke was more powerful than Revan lol.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Being infinitely more powerful than Nyriss' lightning makes him better than Dooku. Her attack was able to instantly incinerate a powerful Sith Lord even after breaking through her barriers. Vitiate overwhelmed the defense of Revan, who easily handled that level of lightning. Even her casual lightning is enough to turn two armored guards into charred husks and Vitiate is vastly more powerful than her. So even accounting a nexus Vitiate's lightning would still be infinitely greater than Dooku's.
Referring to Vitiate's nexus enhanced lightning. You can cry about it all you want, but you can't compare Vitiate's nexus enhanced lightning to Dooku's regular lightning. Vitiate's off nexus lightning feats hasn't been shown to much more potent than Dooku's. To even suggest it matches that of Sidious's, is silly.
Also, Dooku killing a group of force sensitive warriors beats charring two non-force sensitive mooks, regardless of your opinion.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And you expect me to even consider that as being remotely close to Vitiate's level of power? You expect me to not just dismiss you out of hand as obviously trolling me? If you want to ****ing whine about the fact that I kicked your ass [b]about this same freaking topic do it to your friends on skype, don't waste my time with this horseshit.[/B]
You didn't kick my ass, quit dreaming. You're mad that you can't establish Vitiate's potency with lightning compared to that of other characters without using double standards. Dooku blasted Bulq unconscious with a very short blast of lightning that came from one hand. Your counter argument in an attempt to lowball the feat, was that there was no evidence that Bulq used the force to counter Dooku's lightning assault, and that if the force is not shown to actively resist lightning then Dooku wouldn't be overpowering his opponent. This same logic would apply to Vitiate vs the strike team. But, no, according to you, the two jedi who were struck instantly by Vitiate's lightning, were unable to use the force to resist because Vitiate is just that damn powerful.
I didn't say Dooku's feat of overpowering Bulq is as impressive. The feat was brought up to remind you of the argument you used in an attempt lowball it. The fact that you're unable to grasp my point shows incompetence on your part.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if Soderu and Leeha weren't able to mount a defense for his final attack, the only reason they wouldn't be able to do so is because Vitiate was so powerful he stunned them while attacking and holding off Tol Braga and the Hero at the same time and knocking out Kira. So even with his power spread out over 5 Jedi, his casual Force Storm would be able to knock out Kira, pwn Warren and Leeha, force Tol Braga into a desperate defense and he's still able to smack back the Hero when they get close while still doing this. He showed absolutely no effort while pulling this off and the encyclopedia agrees that it was easy for him to beat them. As if Dooku could even come close to replicating that. So to answer your question it's impressive because it's an utterly unprecidented display of Force Lightning and Force Mastery far beyond what even as Sith such as Dooku could dream of pulling off.
The feat is only hyped because the members of the strike team were called the most powerful of their era, which I would normally agree: their position of being the most powerful of their era is what makes the feat impressive. However, according to the logic you use for characters who are not TOR era characters or Bane, the quote about their power is irrelevant to the feat, considering that none of them showed anything to indicate that they used their power to counter the attack. The only defense used in the confrontation was the saber defenses of only two jedi, whereas the lightning attack completely missed the sabers of the other two, leaving them completely vulnerable (unprotected) to Vitiate's lightning. So, in other words, it took 20 seconds worth of lightning spam + another charged attack to overwhelm the saber defenses of just two jedi, considering the other two were irrelevant and completely unprotected. Hardly one of the best lightning feats in the mythos.
If calling you out on your double standards and expecting you to change your poor style of debating is trolling you, then you have no business debating, and you won't receive anymore responses from me, just as LeGenD doesn't. The only reason I waste any time with you is because I always found you to be a fun debater, and I thought that after using your own logic against you, that maybe you would see the error of your ways and change, but recently you've been nothing but a crying little brat who gets defensive because you can't win.
If calling you out on your double standards and expecting you to change your poor style of debating is trolling you, then you have no business debating, and you won't receive anymore responses from me, just as LeGenD doesn't. The only reason I waste any time with you is because I always found you to be a fun debater, and I thought that after using your own logic against you, that maybe you would see the error of your ways and change, but recently you've been nothing but a crying little brat who gets defensive because you can't win.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Erm, excuse yourself? Who are you to judge his debating skills, which has been voted in another thread as superior to yours. 😬 I'm rather confused over your godly sense of yourself. [/B]
You just admitted that Carthage is a better debater than you.
Talk about using your own logic against you, Jesus you walked right into that.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If calling you out on your double standards and expecting you to change your poor style of debating is trolling you, then you have no business debating, and you won't receive anymore responses from me, just as LeGenD doesn't. The only reason I waste any time with you is because I always found you to be a fun debater, and I thought that after using your own logic against you, that maybe you would see the error of your ways and change, but recently you've been nothing but a crying little brat who gets defensive because you can't win.
And you're nothing but a whiny child who can't accept that I beat you twice already and that just maybe your almighty PT characters can lose so leaped on Tempest's tired accusations of double standards to sooth your ego. I'll make it easy on you and tell you straight up to **** off. I don't need to be taught the error of my ways and you can take that arrogant, superior attitude and shove it up your ass. I'm not "defensive" because I can't win, I'm pissed off because that kind of thing aggravates the shit out of me. Worry about your own shitty style of debating and leave me out of it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And you're nothing but a whiny child who can't accept that I beat you twice already and that just maybe your almighty PT characters can lose so leaped on Tempest's tired accusations of double standards to sooth your ego. I'll make it easy on you and tell you straight up to **** off. I don't need to be taught the error of my ways and you can take that arrogant, superior attitude and shove it up your ass. I'm not "defensive" because I can't win, I'm pissed off because that kind of thing aggravates the shit out of me. Worry about your own shitty style of debating and leave me out of it.
We could go back and forth all day about who kicked whose ass, but you and I both know who had that argument.
I leaped on Tempest accusations of double standards to sooth my ego about an argument that I picked with you mainly to call you out on double standards? Doesn't make much sense, now does it? That Tempest later acknowledged the same BS from you, which is very obvious, should tell you something. Regardless, the point remains that you are unable to address the issue, and instead rant because of your inability to do so without making characters like Vitiate less impressive than you want them to be.
What aggravates you? Me not tolerating your BS? Well cheer up, girl, I'll let you continue in relying on a bunch of implications and nexus feats to elevate characters you prefer. I just won't be taking you seriously.