Darth Thanaton vs Darth Wyyrlok III

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I never dismissed the possibility of Thanaton having peers and superiors in power factor, my point is that he is among the strongest individuals in the mythos in natural aspect just like Malgus, Marr, Jadus, Revan, Hero of Tython, Satele Shan, Barsen'thor (3), Luke and Yoda.

Every Sith have different dynamics, Thanaton grew in power with passage of time and proved his worth in battles and tasked to eliminate powerful Exal Kressh by Sith Emperor himself which was beyond the capability of many Sith.

More;

Born Teneb Kel, the Lord of the Sith known as Darth Thanaton rose to prominence in the years before the Treaty of Coruscant, in an Empire newly reintroduced to the galaxy. The apprentice of a disgraced master, the young Thanaton was forced to fight for his place in the Empire. His love of Sith culture and tradition was reinforced by the knowledge that power is not something given, but something fought for. He learned to despise and distrust the machinations of Sith like Lord Zash, who eschew Sith customs in favor of their own deceptive power gains, and to admire the sentinels of Sith history, embodied in the ancient Sith Lords Ajunta Pall, Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord and Naga Sadow. (Taken from SWTOR)

Thanaton represented an ideal Sith Lord, an individual who would gain prominence through personal strength and just not political schemes and short-cuts. He arrived in the Dark Council on the basis of his personal strength and accomplishments, excellent. Sith spent their entire lives plotting to ascend to the Dark Council but few would get the opportunity so becoming a Dark Council member is a major accomplishment for any Sith in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.

Malgus, is also a self-made Sith, yes, undoubtedly one of the strongest I have yet seen. And his attempt to become Sith Emperor is something to behold, it shows how strong he was even though he didn't last against rivals in Dark Council but still he had the mantle for a short while. I believe that elites of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire had the potential to be greatest dark lords outside the Empire but Sith Emperor overshadowed them. Malgus also got an opportunity when Sith Emperor was not in the picture. He had what it takes to be an Emperor but their were other extremely powerful rivals, once again this shows how much quality existed in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire at higher end of its hierarchy.

In short, Malgus, Thanaton, Marr and Jadus are all examples of self-made super-strong Sith. And I respect them all and debate in favor of these Sith in many topics.

**** this entire rant. Stop talking so much. I'm not responding to these huge essays on you masturbating over characters you like.

Thanaton isn't among the strongest individuals. He's far below everyone you mentioned. Resist the delusion and accept this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Did I say that he didn't use the Force? I am pointing out that he use any means necessary to defeat his opponents.

He even wears special gear to have advantage in combat situations like powerful Sith warriors:

The armor of Darth Thanaton incorporates life-support devices and combat stimulant injectors to give him edge in battle. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Yes, Thanaton specializes in use of the Force but this doesn't means he sucks in lightsaber dueling arts and not behaves like Sith warrior. I don't believe in stereotypes about specialties of individuals.

I have the encyclopedia as well, I know about his armor's enhancements.

I didn't say he sucks as a duelist. Only that he's never actually demonstrated any exceptional talent as one. You can speculate all you want about how he might be a great duelist, but without any actual evidence to support the idea it means nothing.

Was he even actually called one of the Empires greatest warriors? I thought he was just called a Champion of Battle.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanaton learned whatever he felt would benefit him. What do you think he was doing with Tulak Hord's holocrons?

It wasn't a holocron, it was a tablet. Thanaton is the Council member in charge of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge. Its only natural for him to have such an artifact.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, your point makes no sense.

Was Tulak Hords master a great duelist because he was one? Your own natural ability has more to do with determining your skill than that of your masters.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Already noted. Anything else? No

Lol, I was only pointing out that you said that Wyyrlok isn't as good as Exal Kressh in anything...... except illusions. Which I thought was stupid to say.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Impressive. Now how good is Krayt's lightning?

Krayt obliterated two large stone pillars with it in his battle with Wyyrlok.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their is good possibility of Thanaton being stronger then Bane but I never stated that he is stronger then Sidious. I pointed out that he seems to be more proficient in use of lightning application then both.

Theres no possibility for Thanaton to be stronger than Bane. He would crush the pompous buffoon. Thanaton's lightning has never demonstrated the power to utterly disintegrate beings like Bane and Sidious have. Their lightning >> his.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, but Thanaton (prime) outright eliminated Teneb Kel (his former-self) with a casual burst of lightning. Notice the difference.

Visions aren't representative of reality.

The Dread Masters are powerful and skilled, but their fear attack can be resisted, especially by one such as Bane and their combat abilities aren't established as being equal to Bane's.

I'm talking about individually, one on one. I already admitted that I don't think anyone can beat them solo.

**** this entire rant. Stop talking so much. I'm not responding to these huge essays on you masturbating over characters you like.

is.

👆

Originally posted by Nephthys

Theres no possibility for Thanaton to be stronger than Bane. He would crush the pompous buffoon. Thanaton's lightning has never demonstrated the power to utterly disintegrate beings like Bane and Sidious have. Their lightning >> his.

👆

Originally posted by psmith81992
I'm not sure how any one force user can combat the dread masters on any level. Those fools have nearly limitless force abilities, including growing to ungodly sizes. I really don't think they should be used in vs. battles.

The growing thing is game mechanics I think and to justify its logic, I would say its more of an illusion than actual growing in size. I agree about their power though. That's why I consider their loyalty to the Emperor as one of Emperor's most impressive feats.

Originally posted by Nephthys

No, there is such a thing as "moderately powerful". Nox is a powerful Sith Lord in their own right, but only compared to the other standard Sith Lords or Jedi Masters of the Empire. Compared to a Darth or a Dark Council member, she's not that great.

If you want an actual description, maybe the term "above average" is accurate.

I can only judge them based on their current abilities.

I know, what I'm saying is that we shouldn't be making statements about the power level, one way or the other, about someone who's well below everyone else in terms of training experience.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane has some of the most devastating direct uses of the Force, the greatest physical abilities and in terms of knowledge of the Force you're forgetting that he has access to Revan, Freedon Nadd, Belia Darzu and Andeddu's holocrons. And all of them are insanely knowledgeable Sith Lords. The Dread Masters are powerful and skilled, but their fear attack can be resisted, especially by one such as Bane and their combat abilities aren't established as being equal to Bane's.

Do not underestimate Dread Masters, they understood the Force in ways unlike most Sith as apparent from their actions. They were so powerful that they couldn't be controlled or held in captivity for long, Republic lost whole fleets to them in battles. On ground, strike teams were dispatched to assassinate them instead of a lone Jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, there is such a thing as "moderately powerful". Nox is a powerful Sith Lord in their own right, but only compared to the other standard Sith Lords or Jedi Masters of the Empire. Compared to a Darth or a Dark Council member, she's not that great.

In the nutshell, Nox may not be an elite in his time at natural level but he can be among the strongest in some eras and outright strongest in some eras. And I am not even considering his augmentation aspects.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If you want an actual description, maybe the term "above average" is accurate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well for a start, unlike you I've actually played the Inquistor campaign as well as every other one and so I have good context for my evaluation of his abilities.

Don't disregard it, but don't give the quote as much credit as you are at the moment. Change your perception.

I have noticed that even incredibly powerful individuals do not necessarily come off as impressive in the SWTOR game, poor story telling. It is the lore (written content) that offers a true picture of what an individual is capable of.

I can provide two ANALOGIES already and I have complete just one story so far.

ANALOGY 1: During my playthrough of JK story, I came across Darth Decimus and easily defeated him. However, as per lore, Darth Decimus is one of the greatest warriors the Empire have ever produced with history of collapsing entire armies during battlefield, and a member of the Dark Council. But in the game, he doesn't have a single feat, no scripted events.

ANALGOY 2: Aforementioned situation rings true for Lord Fulminiss as well, one of the most powerful sorcerers the Empire have ever produced with history and capability of destroying an entire city or settlement with his powers. And yet, fell in the battle easily, no scripted events again.

Therefore, you can play all stories and still not be sure of merits and (actual) strength of every character that you may come across unless you focus on the written content.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There's no such thing as an established fact when it comes to how two characters compare. I didn't think I needed to bother saying that. Of course it's a supposition. Every single thing we're saying is a supposition except for the direct quotes. Don't lecture me about that. It is just as much a supposition of yours that Thanaton remotely compares to the people I mentioned. I say that they can own Thanaton based on evidence and their own abilities, not my personal opinion or how impressive I want a quote calling them powerful to be.

Being labeled as supremely powerful means less about him than you think. You should base your evaluation of his abilities on his actual demonstrated power, not just hyperbolic accolades that are only as impressive as the person reading wants them to be.

1. One of the greatest warriors of the Empire
2. Held his own against powerful Exal Kressh in battles many years before his prime
3. Easily subdued Darth Nox in the first confrontation, Nox was already a powerful Force-user and had augmented his power further with that of a Force-ghost.
4. Endured and survived a lethal blast of energy released by Nox during second confrontation which shattered everything else in the vicinity.
5. Acquired mastery of dark side of such a caliber that he could one-shot even powerful Force-users with his powers, during his prime.
6. Noted to have "insurmountable strength."

So yes, Thanaton is legit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Give me a single bit of proof that Thanaton's lightning was enhanced by sorcery. 😐

Originally posted by Nephthys
Saying "its unclear what strength is needed to tank it" is complete bullshit. Don't cop out of actually proving the strength of the attack. Based on evidence any number of people are strong enough to block it.

Bane faltered against Zannah's attack because it wasn't an attack he could block, it was only something he could overcome through willpower.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Rituals can take place over days or weeks though. They're not representative of the power a Sith can bring to bare in a few seconds. Plus they can require artifacts to achieve their purpose by augmenting the effects of the ritualist. In TOR for instance Nox can be seen performing sorcery with the aid of several objects. The entirety of Act 1 is Nox collecting artifacts needed to perform a ritual.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Gethzerion on the other hand created a lightning storm by getting angry.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's funny how you lecture me about getting my facts straight when you admit to having no idea what you're talking about. 😆

No, Vivicar was drawing on the power of the Jedi Masters. This is confirmed by him and the encyclopedia:

"My plague isn't just a disease; it siphons power from it's victims. With the proper rituals, that power can be channeled. Soon, the combined strength of your Masters will make me the most powerful Force adept who has ever lived!"

"Its victims suffered paranoia and madness, as [Vivicar] drew on their strength to fuel his own power." - Swtore 154

Jesus, Legend why don't you try doing some ****ing research next time. 😉

Though I would point out that Vivicar haven't peaked at the time of confrontation with Barsen'thor. Otherwise, it may not have been possible for a single Jedi to defeat him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
**** this entire rant. Stop talking so much. I'm not responding to these huge essays on you masturbating over characters you like.

Thanaton isn't among the strongest individuals. He's far below everyone you mentioned. Resist the delusion and accept this.

I take it that intellectual debate is not your strong point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have the encyclopedia as well, I know about his armor's enhancements.

I didn't say he sucks as a duelist. Only that he's never actually demonstrated any exceptional talent as one. You can speculate all you want about how he might be a great duelist, but without any actual evidence to support the idea it means nothing.

Was he even actually called one of the Empires greatest warriors? I thought he was just called a Champion of Battle.

What do you think Champion of Battle section implies? Three names specifically mentioned; Darth Malgus; Darth Decimus; and Darth Thanaton.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It wasn't a holocron, it was a tablet. Thanaton is the Council member in charge of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge. Its only natural for him to have such an artifact.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Was Tulak Hords master a great duelist because he was one? Your own natural ability has more to do with determining your skill than that of your masters.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol, I was only pointing out that you said that Wyyrlok isn't as good as Exal Kressh in anything...... except illusions. Which I thought was stupid to say.

Krayt obliterated two large stone pillars with it in his battle with Wyyrlok.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres no possibility for Thanaton to be stronger than Bane. He would crush the pompous buffoon. Thanaton's lightning has never demonstrated the power to utterly disintegrate beings like Bane and Sidious have. Their lightning >> his.

If Thanaton can one-shot powerful individual(s) with casual bursts, he can disintegrate lesser beings. Common sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Visions aren't representative of reality.