Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Top-KEK.Absolutely nothing suggests Naga Sadow or Nadd even visited Malachor, let alone studied there.
Based on quotes from KotOR 2 and Chronicles, much of Malachor's power can be linked to Vitiate's Empire not Sadow's.
Plus your forgetting Revan was literally inside Vitiate's mind for 300 years.
Basically, nothing but 100% speculation on your part even puts Sadow or Nadd close to Revan's knowledge on rituals.
Accept it. 👆
Uh, Sadow and Vitiate come from the same empire. You know, the original one? Malachor was just a storehouse for that empire, so Sadows line of Sith would have access to the knowledge inside it.
Also Nadd was stated to know every technique, so I kinda doubt there was anything on Malachor he didn't know.
There's no proof Revan stole sorcery secrets from Vitiate. Just your fanon bs. Also Revan wasn't a Sith after he was in there so that doesn't count obviously.
Furthermore, rituals aren't all there is to being a sorcerer. Has Revan ever used sorcery in combat or part of his skill set?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, Sadow and Vitiate come from the same empire. You know, the original one? Malachor was just a storehouse for that empire, so Sadows line of Sith would have access to the knowledge inside it.Also Nadd was stated to know every technique, so I kinda doubt there was anything on Malachor he didn't know.
There's no proof Revan stole sorcery secrets from Vitiate. Just your fanon bs.
The fact they had access to it doesn't mean they actually studied it, dipbrain.
Nothing but "your fanon bs" states otherwise.
It's 100% speculation to assume Nadd and Sadow knew all the rituals Revan knew.
And that's not even mentioning rituals like the thought bomb or the Nathema ritual which they didn't have 100%.
Also, Revan specifically stated that he learned "centuries of knowledge" within Vitiate's mind.
This is supported by the fact that he now knew teleportation and how to operate an Eternal Empire device.
I accept your concession.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LMFAO.The fact they had access to it doesn't mean they actually studied it, dipbrain.
Nothing but "your fanon bs" states otherwise.
It's 100% speculation to assume Nadd and Sadow knew all the rituals Revan knew.
And that's not even mentioning rituals like the thought bomb or the Nathema ritual which they didn't have 100%.
Also, Revan specifically stated that he learned "centuries of knowledge" within Vitiate's mind.
This is supported by the fact that he now knew teleportation and how to operate an Eternal Empire device.
I accept your concession.
The fact that Nadd is stated to know every technique says he does. That ain't fanon, champ. 👆
And like I said, Revan knowing stuff from Vitiate is irrelevant, not that Revan even implies it's force knowledge. This thread is for Sith Sorcerers. Revan had been dethroned for quite some time before he got gimped by Vitiate.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Uh, yeah. 😬 Especially on the Temple of Sacrifice.And dude, your prized Bane was in ****ing awe over what Revan knew, kek
Channeling some machines power isn't sorcery afaik.
When Bane's only comparison was the freaking Brotherhood, sure.
The fact that Nadd is stated to know every technique says he does. That ain't fanon, champ. thumb up
And it also says he knows everything also hidden in holocrons / tombs, but Malachor didn't even exist when such a statement was written.
Given you are a proud supporter of the SWTOR and Vitiate cause, I'm quite confident you follow the "Earth time beats Star Wars time".
Plus we also know the latter is an hyperbole anyway given he didn't have access to the Jedi Archives since he wasn't a Jedi Master.
So nah, my point stands. 👆
And like I said, Revan knowing stuff from Vitiate is irrelevant, not that Revan even implies it's force knowledge. This thread is for Sith Sorcerers. Revan had been dethroned for quite some time before he got gimped by Vitiate.
Channeling some machines power isn't sorcery afaik.
And nah, he did a lot of shit on the Temple of Sacrifice. Check out my RT under "Sith Sorcery" for all the details.
When Bane's only comparison was the freaking Brotherhood, sure.
True, Revan had eventually gone back over to the Jedi and the light after being betrayed by Darth Malak. Still, Revan and Malak had come within a hairsbreadth of wiping out the Republic. It was foolish to discount all they accomplished, and even more foolish to ignore the lessons that could be learned from them. Yet Qordis and the other Masters stubbornly refused to spend any time studying the history of the Sith order. Fortunately for Bane, it was a trait they passed along to their students.
It had given him an undeniable advantage over the other apprentices. If nothing else, it had shown him the true potential of the dark side. The archives were filled with accounts of incredible feats of power: cities laid waste, worlds brought low, entire star systems swallowed up when a Dark Lord caused the sun to go nova. Some of these tales were likely exaggerations, myths that had grown with each retelling before being set down on parchment. Yet they had their roots in truth, and that truth had inspired Bane to push himself farther and faster than he otherwise would have dared.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Uh, that quote doesn't exist. A quote does say he knew every technique listed in Tales of the Jedi content, though.
"Freedon Nadd has knowledge of all the Jedi and Sith Force powers presented herein as well as those abilities still hidden in ancient Holocrons and tomes." - Tales of the Jedi Companion
Emphasis mine. The Sourcebook equips Nadd with a carde blanche regarding Force powers, specifically for everything predating his lifetime. Which is only logical, because Naga Sadow, from whom Nadd learned everything, is stated to have been one of the most powerful Sith sorcerers ever (see: The Essential Guide through the Force).
And it also says he knows everything also hidden in holocrons / tombs, but Malachor didn't even exist when such a statement was written.
Which is entirely irrelevant, because it's a carde blanche. It's a statement written for game masters, enabling them to let Nadd do whatever they want. But if you want to accept such statements as a guideline, it's pretty clear that Nadd is above Revan in terms of knowledge regarding Sith Sorcery.
Even if you want to ignore that statement (as I would, because it is part of the N-Canon game stats), Nadd had learned everything from Sadow. With Sadow being one of the most powerful Sorcerers ever. Which is also pretty apparent if you think about the fact that he was the rival of Ludo Kressh. The same Ludo Kressh that was capable of constructing an amulet that did render the wearer untouchable by any form of outside influence (ranging from lightsaber strikes to a cityblock-busting turbolaser shot from a capital starship).
Given you are a proud supporter of the SWTOR and Vitiate cause, I'm quite confident you follow the "Earth time beats Star Wars time".Plus we also know the latter is an hyperbole anyway given he didn't have access to the Jedi Archives since he wasn't a Jedi Master.
So nah, my point stands. 👆
Urm.
If you were referring to Nadd when stating that he didn't have access to the Jedi Archives, you are applying the PT era rules to TOTJ era characters. There wasn't a restriction like that back in Nadd's time, mainly because they didn't have Sith artifacts in the Jedi Archives, as they had during the PT. There existed only a single Sith holocron in the possession of the Jedi, and that was in the private collection of Odan-Urr before Kun stole it.
Nadd was free to learn what he wanted, and considering he was a prodigy in the Force, it appears reasonable that he did learn all he could from the Jedi during his stay on Ossus.
Channeling some machines power into a ritual that would have destroyed Yavin IV is. 👆
The same machine that was used by Kun in the same fashion before? The same machine that was constructed by either Kun or Sadow [who both had pretty much the same knowledge as Nadd] in the sorcery field? Having the ability to press a button on a machinery doesn't mean you know more about it than the guy who constructed the machine.
And nah, he did a lot of shit on the Temple of Sacrifice. Check out my RT under "Sith Sorcery" for all the details.
You're respect thread is laughable, given the hilarious conclusions you draw from certain quotes. Can you please tell me, how this...
"A transcription of the ritual was recorded by Darth Revan and served as the inspiration for Lord Kaan's thought bomb on Ruusan."
...translates into that:
"Revan was the creator of the most infamous Sith weapon in history - the Thought Bomb."
Do you know what a "transcript" is? Essentially, Revan wrote down what Vitiate did, so the "creator of the thought bomb" would still be the Sith Emperor. And furthermore: We know that similar stuff happened without Vitiate's influence. When Kun visists Korriban, Nadd points him to a crytalline pillar in which the souls of defeated Jedi Masters are stored, which looks exactly like the aftermath of a thought bomb in use. And Kun himself later ask the Odan-Urr, if he should imprison the soul of the Jedi Master in a crystal. Does that sound familiar?
For the rest of your laughable conclusions
Out of this:
"Trouble up ahead. I don't know if the Revanites have been experimenting or what, but they've got their hands on the mother of all Massassi."[/quote]
You conclude that Revan must be responsible for the creation of Malaphar. So because Theron Shan has no idea where that thing comes from, it must have been designed by Revan. And not by, let us say, Sadow or Kun, who are both known for experimenting extensively with the Massassi? Yup. That seems about right. 🙄
And lastly, Revan utilizing the Star Forges power to do something, doesn't translate into him using Sith sorcery.
You may want to compare that to Nadd, who apparently learned anything from Sadow. Who, after doing so, went to Onderon and singlehandly conquered the planet, a deed that including destroying an army of beast riders with Sith Sorcery. You know...those warriors riding on rather huge drexls. So give me a call when Revan destroys armies in direct confrontation.
Uh, what?True, Revan had eventually gone back over to the Jedi and the light after being betrayed by Darth Malak. Still, Revan and Malak had come within a hairsbreadth of wiping out the Republic. It was foolish to discount all they accomplished, and even more foolish to ignore the lessons that could be learned from them. Yet Qordis and the other Masters stubbornly refused to spend any time studying the history of the Sith order. Fortunately for Bane, it was a trait they passed along to their students.
It had given him an undeniable advantage over the other apprentices. If nothing else, it had shown him the true potential of the dark side. The archives were filled with accounts of incredible feats of power: cities laid waste, worlds brought low, entire star systems swallowed up when a Dark Lord caused the sun to go nova. Some of these tales were likely exaggerations, myths that had grown with each retelling before being set down on parchment. Yet they had their roots in truth, and that truth had inspired Bane to push himself farther and faster than he otherwise would have dared.
You do realize that the text you have quoted, makes it rather obvious, that - in comparison to the actions of Revan and Malak - Bane considers the stuff that the Ancient Sith have done (here: Kun) so unlikely, that he thinks of it as "exaggerations" and "myths" - when we know that it actually happened? So even for Bane, Revan is inferior to the Ancient Sith (Sadow) and the people that learned from them directly (Nadd, Kun).