Originally posted by Deronn_soloThe Ant I have faith in will see to the defense of the emperor of the Star Wars universe will also definitely volley back. If he is what I hope he is he won't take this lying down.
Moment of silence please, 'cause Ant was just killed by Nai, ngl right now.
👆
Ps. Ant, get around to seeing Star Trek: Into Darkness.
Responding to this part first since its relevant to me:
The same machine that was used by Kun in the same fashion before? The same machine that was constructed by either Kun or Sadow [who both had pretty much the same knowledge as Nadd] in the sorcery field? Having the ability to press a button on a machinery doesn't mean you know more about it than the guy who constructed the machine.
You're wrong.
I love when you act like the big shot and end up being abortion fodder.
mmm
Some people in SOR said the Temple and the device within it was of ancient Sith orgin, but it was retconned to it being of Eternal Empire origin and created by Emperor Valkorion himself (supposedly).
"The temple was created by the Emperor's design, much like the Eternal Empire. I suspect there could be shared elements in the technology."
"Knowledge is power and here lays the closest technological cousin of the Eternal Empire: the Temple of Sacrifice."
So no, unless Kun, Sadow, or Nadd was the Emperor who made the Eternal Empire, you're blatantly lying and it's yourpostontorpowerprogressionworthy. 🙂
For future reference, check out:http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/361407467546?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82
You're respect thread is laughable, given the hilarious conclusions you draw from certain quotes. Can you please tell me, how this..."A transcription of the ritual was recorded by Darth Revan and served as the inspiration for Lord Kaan's thought bomb on Ruusan."
...translates into that:
"Revan was the creator of the most infamous Sith weapon in history - the Thought Bomb."
Do you know what a "transcript" is? Essentially, Revan wrote down what Vitiate did, so the "creator of the thought bomb" would still be the Sith Emperor. And furthermore: We know that similar stuff happened without Vitiate's influence. When Kun visists Korriban, Nadd points him to a crytalline pillar in which the souls of defeated Jedi Masters are stored, which looks exactly like the aftermath of a thought bomb in use. And Kun himself later ask the Odan-Urr, if he should imprison the soul of the Jedi Master in a crystal. Does that sound familiar?
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
DUDE
ROFL ROFL
Damn, this is fantastic.
The "transcript" you are referencing is the ****ing Nathema ritual, not the thought bomb.
Revan wrote down what Vitiate did. Correct. Vitiate did the Nathema ritual.
Revan used said transcript as inspiration for the creation of the thought bomb.
GG. 👆
Out of this:
"Trouble up ahead. I don't know if the Revanites have been experimenting or what, but they've got their hands on the mother of all Massassi."[You conclude that Revan must be responsible for the creation of Malaphar. So because Theron Shan has no idea where that thing comes from, it must have been designed by Revan. And not by, let us say, Sadow or Kun, who are both known for experimenting extensively with the Massassi? Yup. That seems about right. roll eyes (sarcastic)
"Theron Shan believed Revan and his Revanites..."
"Theron Shan believed Revan and the Revanites..."
I make specific notice that it's pure speculation - and even include the quote.
I never concluded "must", I concluded he "might" have.
GG. 👆
You're like 0 for a thousand at this point.
And lastly, Revan utilizing the Star Forges power to do something, doesn't translate into him using Sith sorcery.
My thread doesn't have a Sith Alchemy section so it was placed with there. I'll specify once I got home it was Alchemy - must have forgot.
Would that make you feel better? 🙄 😆
It's also possibly a corruption feat, though given we don't know a lot of context surrounding it I'll leave it at that.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Responding to this part first since its relevant to me:
Nope.You're wrong.
I love when you act like the big shot and end up being abortion fodder.
mmm
The "abortion fodder" is going to teach you a lesson now, son. Pay attention.
Some people in SOR said the Temple and the device within it was of ancient Sith orgin, but it was retconned to it being of Eternal Empire origin and created by Emperor Valkorion himself (supposedly)."The temple was created by the Emperor's design, much like the Eternal Empire. I suspect there could be shared elements in the technology."
"Knowledge is power and here lays the closest technological cousin of the Eternal Empire: the Temple of Sacrifice."
So no, unless Kun, Sadow, or Nadd was the Emperor who made the Eternal Empire, you're blatantly lying and it's yourpostontorpowerprogressionworthy. 🙂
Did you want to bring a source for that quotes to the table, as it's common procedure when introducing them? Because so far, I've seen them from you exclusively.
For future reference, check out:http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/361407467546?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82
Oh. Thank you very much. So you want people to buy games, and play them in order for them to find proof for your claims? That's a nice idea, Sir. I'm a bit old-fashioned, though. I like people to bring their own proof to the table. Is that an acceptable procedure for yourself?
Furthermore your attempt to dodge my point has been noted, but, let me say this: By far smarter people in comparison to yourself have tried and failed with that tactic against me. So once let me point your attention to the important fact once again:
Revan was just utilizing machinery, that was not constructed by himself. How is that a testament for his skills in sorcery, especially in comparison to people who have constructed / used similar machinery to perform a similar feat. But - unlike Revan - with success?
You will notice that none of what you said has any impact on the fact that people like Kun and Sadow > Revan. But thanks for trying to debate.
The "transcript" you are referencing is the ****ing Nathema ritual, not the thought bomb.Revan wrote down what Vitiate did. Correct. Vitiate did the Nathema ritual.
Revan used said transcript as inspiration for the creation of the thought bomb.
GG. 👆
*cough*
That's still not what the quote says. It says that the transcript that Revan made was the inspiration for Lord Kaan's thought bomb. What we know is, that Kaan got the idea from Bane. What we not know is what Bane got from the holocron. The only thing that is mentioned in there, is Revan's transcript from the Nathema ritual. So the "creator" of the thought bomb appears to be Bane - not Revan. And I'm not even going to start to point out how entirely senseless that idea is, since Revan didn't know anything about Nathema before returning to the Sith Empire. Which means that he must have made this addition to the Holocron beyond that point in time. Seems rather senseless to me.
But, as you have, once again, forgot to answer my point entirely:
How does that put Revan above people who came from the same knowledge base as Valkorion and who's inferiors have used similar techniques to combat opponents?
🙂
I make specific notice that it's pure speculation - and even include the quote.I never concluded "must", I concluded he "might" have.
"Theron Shan believed Revan and his Revanites were responsible for the alchemical monster that is Malaphar the Savage, who was possibly the greatest Massassi in history and among the most powerful beings in the galaxy. This is a display of Sith Alchemy, also known as Force Alchemy."
You do list that in a respect thread that deals with Revan's abilities. I wasn't aware that "stuff people maybe did but probably not" is now part of lists of accolades and feats.
But you, once more, forgot to answer my point:
How does that put Revan above people who have come up with similar or even superior creations in the field of Sith Alchemy [mutated Massassi, the Nightbeast, Terentateks, Sadow's Sithspawn]?
Let me add a little nod to the other points you ignored: feats for Nadd, Sadow, Kressh in the department and the idea that Bane thought the exploits of people like Kun to be "exeggerations" and "myths" compared to the stuff that Revan did, which he viewed as impressive but very much real.
How about going back to the compilation of quotes and feats, the business that trained monkeys could do, while leaving the intellectual work to those capable of it? Or - maybe - you want to do something useful: Learn how to use "critical analysis", apply it to your respect thread and maybe the result will be something that is worth reading.
"Freedon Nadd has knowledge of all the Jedi and Sith Force powers presented herein as well as those abilities still hidden in ancient Holocrons and tomes." - Tales of the Jedi CompanionEmphasis mine. The Sourcebook equips Nadd with a carde blanche regarding Force powers, specifically for everything predating his lifetime. Which is only logical, because Naga Sadow, from whom Nadd learned everything, is stated to have been one of the most powerful Sith sorcerers ever (see: The Essential Guide through the Force).
Which is entirely irrelevant, because it's a carde blanche. It's a statement written for game masters, enabling them to let Nadd do whatever they want. But if you want to accept such statements as a guideline, it's pretty clear that Nadd is above Revan in terms of knowledge regarding Sith Sorcery.
This part here is probably the biggest flaw in your argument:
The quote states Freedon Nadd knows "all the Jedi and Sith Force powers."
It does not state, nor mean, he knows all Force-related techniques / practices.
A Force power is something like Telekiensis, Force Lightning, Force Storm, etc.
Elaborate Sith rituals do not fit under the umbrella of a "Force power". 😬
Even if you want to ignore that statement (as I would, because it is part of the N-Canon game stats), Nadd had learned everything from Sadow. With Sadow being one of the most powerful Sorcerers ever. Which is also pretty apparent if you think about the fact that he was the rival of Ludo Kressh. The same Ludo Kressh that was capable of constructing an amulet that did render the wearer untouchable by any form of outside influence (ranging from lightsaber strikes to a cityblock-busting turbolaser shot from a capital starship).
Where was it stated Naga Sadow was a greater sorcerer / alchemist than Ludo Kressh? Or even comparable, for that matter?
Looks like speculation on your part. Malak and Revan were rivals. I don't recall Malak being close to Revan's knowledge on Sith lore.
Also, the fact Nadd learned everything from Sadow doesn't mean he's better than Revan when Sadow isn't even better than Revan.
Urm.
If you were referring to Nadd when stating that he didn't have access to the Jedi Archives, you are applying the PT era rules to TOTJ era characters. There wasn't a restriction like that back in Nadd's time, mainly because they didn't have Sith artifacts in the Jedi Archives, as they had during the PT. There existed only a single Sith holocron in the possession of the Jedi, and that was in the private collection of Odan-Urr before Kun stole it.Nadd was free to learn what he wanted, and considering he was a prodigy in the Force, it appears reasonable that he did learn all he could from the Jedi during his stay on Ossus.
Nevertheless, it's still massive speculation on your part. Do you have a quote that says Nadd learned everything he could for the Jedi?
I have one in regards to Revan. So, it looks like he's beating him in that field too. 👆
You do realize that the text you have quoted, makes it rather obvious, that - in comparison to the actions of Revan and Malak - Bane considers the stuff that the Ancient Sith have done (here: Kun) so unlikely, that he thinks of it as "exaggerations" and "myths" - when we know that it actually happened? So even for Bane, Revan is inferior to the Ancient Sith (Sadow) and the people that learned from them directly (Nadd, Kun).
Hm? Darth Bane wasn't aware of all the details on Revan's actions. In fact, to my knowledge, all he really knew was:
1.) Revan and Malak were former Jedi that turned Sith and were a hairsbreath away from defeating the Republic.
2.) Revan redeemed himself back to the light, destroyed the Sith Academy on Korriban, than beat Malak over Lehon.
Please note that the quote referenced was stated by Darth Bane before coming across his holocron. 😬
Also, LMFAO @ "when we know that it actually happened." No "worlds" were ever "brought low."
And yeah, I would be pretty impressed by Naga Sadow exploding a star too without knowing he had massive nexus.
Suggesting Bane regarded Kun or Sadow in higher regard than Revan, who was the basis of his entire Rule of Two and provided him with all the tools necessary to overcome Lord Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness is absolutely ridiculous.
Did you want to bring a source for that quotes to the table, as it's common procedure when introducing them? Because so far, I've seen them from you exclusively.
He's about as credible an in-source character can get in regards to archaeology and whatnot.
Oh. Thank you very much. So you want people to buy games, and play them in order for them to find proof for your claims? That's a nice idea, Sir. I'm a bit old-fashioned, though. I like people to bring their own proof to the table. Is that an acceptable procedure for yourself?
Revan was just utilizing machinery, that was not constructed by himself. How is that a testament for his skills in sorcery, especially in comparison to people who have constructed / used similar machinery to perform a similar feat. But - unlike Revan - with success?You will notice that none of what you said has any impact on the fact that people like Kun and Sadow > Revan. But thanks for trying to debate.
Revan knowing how to do a ritual that would destroy all life on Yavin IV surpasses Kun's prized and main ritual.
And it's not as if he failed to do it - he would have been successful if not for the strike team that literally came in and destroyed the device.
BTW, most of the knowledge / equipment / temples / rituals that Kun has is not via his own creation, but from the leftovers as Naga Sadow. 😬
*cough*
That's still not what the quote says. It says that the transcript that Revan made was the inspiration for Lord Kaan's thought bomb. What we know is, that Kaan got the idea from Bane. What we not know is what Bane got from the holocron. The only thing that is mentioned in there, is Revan's transcript from the Nathema ritual. So the "creator" of the thought bomb appears to be Bane - not Revan. And I'm not even going to start to point out how entirely senseless that idea is, since Revan didn't know anything about Nathema before returning to the Sith Empire. Which means that he must have made this addition to the Holocron beyond that point in time. Seems rather senseless to me.But, as you have, once again, forgot to answer my point entirely:
How does that put Revan above people who came from the same knowledge base as Valkorion and who's inferiors have used similar techniques to combat opponents?
And, for the record, in terms of the people who tried to say that quote isn't what me / Temp interpreted it as, you're easily the most retarded.
Did you... did you really just ****ing say that Darth Bane created the thought bomb?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRK
"Bane had sent it to Lord Kaan as a peace offering; a way to atone for Kas'im's death. It wasn't much to look at: text written on several sheets of flimsi, the writing cramped and hurried as if it had been recorded while listening to someone else speak. Yet within its pages it contained a detailed description of one of the most fearsome creations of the ancient Sith: the thought bomb." --POD
"Bane plots to reinfiltrate the Brotherhood and destroy it from within. He offers Lord Kaan a peculiar gift discovered among Revan’s teachings: instructions for the creation of a powerful Sith weapon, the thought bomb." --ERC
You're literally embarrassing yourself at this point. And the text even makes not the ritual has been performed before in the past by ancient Sith. 👆
Also, no. Revan and Malak went to Nathema after the Battle of Malachor V. They were there for quite some time trying to find Vitiate's location:
"He knew with absolute certainty that he had been to this world before. He remembered its deserted city and its lifeless surface. He remembered searching the empty buildings with Malak, looking for archives, records, and astrogation charts that would guide them on the next step of the journey. But most of all, he remembered the horror of a dead planet entirely stripped of the Force." --TOR:R
Tell me, how does it feel to be a failure?
(Continued above).
How does that put Revan above people who came from the same knowledge base as Valkorion and who's inferiors have used similar techniques to combat opponents?
And your attempts on trying to diminish the significance of the thought bomb is laughable.
Many Sth rituals are similar in concept and result - that doesn't mean they aren't all unique and vary in terms of power.
The thought bomb destroyed thousands of Jedi / Sith and created one of the most potent nexus' ever.
How does that put Revan above people who have come up with similar or even superior creations in the field of Sith Alchemy [mutated Massassi, the Nightbeast, Terentateks, Sadow's Sithspawn]?
Secondly, Kun made all his creations in an uber-powerful dark side nexus temple specifically designed to aid him in the creation of his monsters.
It's literally not that impressive. Accept it.
Or - maybe - you want to do something useful: Learn how to use "critical analysis", apply it to your respect thread and maybe the result will be something that is worth reading.
I'm not really concerned with your distaste of it, sorry. In fact - I'm going to be that guy who expands on the parts you hate.
an hero 👆
NOTE: The YouTube video I linked has a bad link. It won't let me fix it. Here's the real version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRKz82v5JQY
Also, since it won't let me edit again, I apologize for any glaring typos. If you get confused, just ask TBH.
PS: Revan's better than Kun in virtually everything. He's more powerful, more knowledgeable, a greater duelist, greater physicals, more intelligent, and more successful.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
NOTE: The YouTube video I linked has a bad link. It won't let me fix it. Here's the real version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRKz82v5JQYAlso, since it won't let me edit again, I apologize for any glaring typos. If you get confused, just ask TBH.
PS: Revan's better than Kun in virtually everything. He's more powerful, more knowledgeable, a greater duelist, greater physicals, more intelligent, and more successful.
LMFAO, how many times are you going to shit this out?
Exar Kun is confirmed to be one of the most powerful Nexus of Dark Side energy Luke's ever faced, comparable to Reborn Palpatine. I have never heard of Revan being called a Nexus of Force energy.
Exar Kun had the Dark Holocron, which had the full knowledge, histories and lore of the Sith dating back 100,000 years. He also had more knowledge than he would ever need from the Great Library on Ossus. Not to mention all the knowledge of Naga Sadow and Freedon Nadd. Revan has a very strong place in terms of Force knowledge but Exar Kun's is at least equal and at best far more vast.
Better at dueling? Exar Kun perfected the most difficult aspects of lightsaber dueling and became so far ahead of his time the only Niman master that even compares isn't born for another four thousand years.
When Revan is smashing through multi-feet thick walls of beskar or staffs confirmed to be stronger than any lightsaber blade, please inform me. The only two physicals Revan has parity with is speed and endurance.
Revan's so intelligent that he got TK raped by Vitiate, decided it would be a superb idea to go and face Vitiate (in the capital of Vitiate's empire) again by himself. Yet after failing a second time decided that after 300 years of knowing how ridiculously powerful Vitiate is, to resurrect him and try to face him, again, by himself, in a DS Nexus Temple Vitiate designed to sustain himself. Revan is certainly intelligent but please don't give me that tactical genius turd logic.
Exar Kun managed to simultaneously one shot the Jedi Masters, cripple the Senate, forge a vast brotherhood of powerful factioms, and very nearly annihilate the Republic during one of the strongest times for the Republic and Jedi Order. He didn't need a Rakatan super factory, a third of the Republic Navy, Republic defense grid keys and surprise invasions to do it either.
Infact I would say Exar Kun with Ulic came far closer to conquering the galaxy than Darth Revan and Malak ever did and with a fraction of the resources to boot.
Originally posted by AncientPower
LMFAO, how many times are you going to shit this out?
You've tried like a dozen times and either rage quited or conceded, IIRC.
Exar Kun is confirmed to be one of the most powerful Nexus of Dark Side energy Luke's ever faced, comparable to Reborn Palpatine. I have never heard of Revan being called a Nexus of Force energy.
That means shit given Kun and Palpatine were the only two people he fought of note. He doesn't consider Vader in those equations due to his whole "Vader was redeemed" shit.
So wow, Exar Kun is more powerful than Desann. Shocker.
Uh, the places where he simply walked as a Sith Lord radiated such power that Shan and the reborn Revan felt his dark presence years later.
And he was so powerful that he made non-sensitive Ongree slaves ****ing feel the Force. That's a caliber of nexus rivaled only by no one. 👆
Exar Kun had the Dark Holocron, which had the full knowledge, histories and lore of the Sith dating back 100,000 years. He also had more knowledge than he would ever need from the Great Library on Ossus. Not to mention all the knowledge of Naga Sadow and Freedon Nadd. Revan has a very strong place in terms of Force knowledge but Exar Kun's is at least equal and at best far more vast.
Better at dueling? Exar Kun perfected the most difficult aspects of lightsaber dueling and became so far ahead of his time the only Niman master that even compares isn't born for another four thousand years.
When Revan is smashing through multi-feet thick walls of beskar or staffs confirmed to be stronger than any lightsaber blade, please inform me. The only two physicals Revan has parity with is speed and endurance.
The staff feat is pretty solid but obviously an exaggeration. Its power is limited to Vodo's if he's enhancing it. 😬
Unless it was permanently enhanced? I don't recall that being the case, but correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't recall the other feat (the multi-feet thick one), but that's probably because you're exaggerating it so out of proportion.
Revan's so intelligent that he got TK raped by Vitiate, decided it would be a superb idea to go and face Vitiate (in the capital of Vitiate's empire) again by himself. Yet after failing a second time decided that after 300 years of knowing how ridiculously powerful Vitiate is, to resurrect him and try to face him, again, by himself, in a DS Nexus Temple Vitiate designed to sustain himself. Revan is certainly intelligent but please don't give me that tactical genius turd logic.Exar Kun managed to simultaneously one shot the Jedi Masters, cripple the Senate, forge a vast brotherhood of powerful factioms, and very nearly annihilate the Republic during one of the strongest times for the Republic and Jedi Order. He didn't need a Rakatan super factory, a third of the Republic Navy, Republic defense grid keys and surprise invasions to do it either.
Infact I would say Exar Kun with Ulic came far closer to conquering the galaxy than Darth Revan and Malak ever did and with a fraction of the resources to boot.
😬
If you're serious, let me know. Otherwise, nice trolling.
In terms of Revan's Thought Bomb knowledge, I hope you do realize that Exar Kun himself was capable of very similar sorcery, and without the aid of any Sith Lords either.
He threatens to put the souls of Jedi inside of crystals, much like he found in the Dark Holocron. Not to mention one of his most impressive creations, the Golden Globe, in which Exar Kun trapped the souls of thousands of Massassi to feast upon at his leisure.
Then there is his most impressive creation, the Dark Reaper, which was capable of draining hundreds of soldiers on Raxus Prime and would insta-kill TCW Anakin Skywalker if he got too close, despite Ulic's technique.
The Thought Bomb kills every living thing on a planet and absorbs the souls of Force Users inside of crystalline objects, something the Golden Globe is exceptionally similar to infact.
Exar Kun could quite easily be using the same techniques as those required with the Thought Bomb Ritual just without any aid, hence a lesser effect. With sufficient aid, like Lord Kaan or Vitiate himself, I would almost certainly say that Exar Kun would be capable of performing the same feat.
You can use your Malaphar the Savage example all you like Ant, it still completely pales in comparison to the alchemical creations that Exar Kun has created, I.E the Dark Reaper.
I am not even inclined to believe Malaphar the Savage is superior to the Massassi Abominations Kun created, he managed to create abominations infused with Dark Armor at a molecular level and imbue them with genuine Dark Side powers. Malaphar the Savage is certainly larger to a degree but his supposed potency just isn't as far ahead as you portray it to be.
That is of course assuming Theron Shan is correct and has not mistaken Malaphar for one of Kun's many abominations.
Fact of the matter is, Exar Kun is praised as one of the greatest Sith Sorcerers of all time on numerous occasions. Revan is certainly not.