Force Users vs. X-men (unbiased and clean)

Originally posted by KingD19
CIS doesn't mean Vader doesn't have that power. And CIS Off doesn't mean he does have it.

He only displayed Force Crush in the movies when he was certain he'd murdered his wife on top of betraying all of his friends, killing a bunch of kids that looked up to him, and having the only family he had in Obi-Wan cutting him up and leaving him to die. He can't just summon those spur of the moment feelings and use it whenever he wants.

But Vader does have that power; we see him use it. More importantly, that's when he's fresh in the suit, diminished and untrained in the Sith arts.

Originally posted by KingD19
And the speed of the Force isn't up for debate, it's the speed of the people wielding it. And those people are statues to Quicksilver. Before Vader can take a breath, Quicksilver has destroyed him. That's how fast he is and we all know it. There's no point in arguing against the truth.

Those people indeed move exponentially slower than Quicksilver. But there's no reason to assume that Quicksilver is necessarily quicker than Vader's murderous impulse.

Originally posted by KingD19
Oh, and since his body has to resist speeds that would basically destroy a human body without some type of protection(being in a jet), he's pretty damn durable.

That still doesn't mean he's more durable than the sort of punishment Vader can unleash.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He doesn't need to, with his speed the other side will all be dead before they even realize that he moved.

I'm not convinced that this is necessarily the case with PIS/CIS turned off for the Force users as well.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Please explain what in particular he can’t do on the whim. He cried and everything die. Why wouldn’t he be able to do that again? Dark-side feeds off of anger, correct? As for focusing, I hope you are not referring to Luke someone Vader did not want to kill.

I get it, anytime a comment comes up in favor of the force users you like dadudemon find something faulty about it.

Delusional? I am not the one making up things. I already stated that he can hit them but if he doesn’t kill them then he is dead. Your counter, he moves to fast to be sense through the force. Based upon what facts? None.

The force that enables a user to see future events that allows users to block lasers and fight machines that move much faster than the body, won’t be able to sense Quicksilver.

No your eagerness to diminished the abilities of the force to support your argument is delusional at best.

Pre Cog works on blaster fire, did it save Obi and Qui gon's ship from getting destroyed, or did it stop Hans from getting frozen? You guys think its some great omnipotent power. It has limits, even for Yoda.

It's been proven bullets are much much faster than blaster bolts(which are not lasers by the way), and Quicksilver sees fired bullets as stationary.

And as I said, it's not the Force, it's the users. None of them are fast enough to register Quicksilver. Unless you're saying while he's moving at his speeds, the people stuck as statues can still fight and move normally.

And moving at such speeds, a single hit from him would be enough to ko all of the Force Users. He tapped a guys cheek and he went flying across the room. Imagine if he punched them full force in the face or kicked them as hard as he could in the chin? Instant, bloody, gory death. Also the fact that he can redirect bullets while in flight shows tremendous strength while moving at speed.

Originally posted by KingD19
It's been proven bullets are much much faster than blaster bolts(which are not lasers by the way), and Quicksilver sees fired bullets as stationary.

And as I said, it's not the Force, it's the users. None of them are fast enough to register Quicksilver. Unless you're saying while he's moving at his speeds, the people stuck as statues can still fight and move normally.

And moving at such speeds, a single hit from him would be enough to ko all of the Force Users. He tapped a guys cheek and he went flying across the room. Imagine if he punched them full force in the face or kicked them as hard as he could in the chin? Instant, bloody, gory death.

Won't Quicksilver begin the fight stationary?

Originally posted by KingD19
It's been proven bullets are much much faster than blaster bolts(which are not lasers by the way), and Quicksilver sees fired bullets as stationary.

And as I said, it's not the Force, it's the users. None of them are fast enough to register Quicksilver. Unless you're saying while he's moving at his speeds, the people stuck as statues can still fight and move normally.

And moving at such speeds, a single hit from him would be enough to ko all of the Force Users. He tapped a guys cheek and he went flying across the room. Imagine if he punched them full force in the face or kicked them as hard as he could in the chin? Instant, bloody, gory death. Also the fact that he can redirect bullets while in flight shows tremendous strength while moving at speed.

Makes me think QS has uber durability as well to withstand those speeds and the fact he had to brace Magento head.

As soon as the fight starts he's on the move. His perception of time is so fast as soon as things get going, everyone is already frozen. This is proven from direct feats from DoFP.

Yeah Time, a normal person moving at those speeds would probably just die with no protection. And he actually had to go slower with Magneto, even bracing him to keep him from getting whiplash. Hell, just the shockwave of him running by knocked 20 guards into the air and ko'd all of them..

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Won't Quicksilver begin the fight stationary?

Everything he does it amplified by his power, his thoughts, thinking, body movements, if its a fight, he's already in SS before it begins.

Originally posted by KingD19
As soon as the fight starts he's on the move. His perception of time is so fast as soon as things get going, everyone is already frozen. This is proven from direct feats from DoFP.

I know and I don't dispute that. I also don't dispute the fact that he's many, many times faster than any of the Force adepts with regards to physical movement. My question is whether or not he's faster than the Force as summoned by their thoughts and will.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I know and I don't dispute that. I also don't dispute the fact that he's many, many times faster than any of the Force adepts with regards to physical movement. My question is whether or not he's faster than the Force as summoned by their thoughts and will.

Vadars choke was never that quick. Not on QS level of quickness.

His thoughts are faster than theirs. That's the whole point. He can think faster than they can, so he's already on the move before they register a thought.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not convinced that this is necessarily the case with PIS/CIS turned off for the Force users as well.

None of the Jedi are fast enough to even move before QS kills them, removing PIS/CIS helps the X-men side far more than the Jedi.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Vadars choke was never that quick. Not on QS level of quickness.

I think you mean Vader's Force choke never killed that quick in the films and I'd agree. But that assumes he was going for a quick kill rather than a protracted torture. I think that's unfair to assume.

Originally posted by KingD19
His thoughts are faster than theirs. That's the whole point. He can think faster than they can, so he's already on the move before they register a thought.

Quicksilver moving faster than thought is something I don't remember, actually.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Pre Cog works on blaster fire, did it save Obi and Qui gon's ship from getting destroyed, or did it stop Hans from getting frozen? You guys think its some great omnipotent power. It has limits, even for Yoda.

What is this suppose to prove?

Let me catch you up since you are so eager to join the conversation. There is nothing that proves they will not be able to sense Quicksilver through the force and not target him with the force. That should not even be argued as I stated the first time.

Question is will they be able to react in time. If he doesn't take them out with the first or second attack he will die from a force choke.

Vader has shown this ability to perform without moving, waving his hands, and while talking.

Once again what is there defense against force?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Quicksilver moving faster than thought is something I don't remember, actually.

His mind is amplified just like his body is.

Whenever he does a Force choke, he has to focus, aim, hold up his hand, etc... Even if he didn't. He'd be dead before he registered the thought of using the Force. Because Quicksilver moves at high multiple mach speeds and the Force Users don't.

Quicksilver moves bullets out of flight because of speed.(Whole lots faster than blasters) Force Users have to know where blaster bolts are to block them, not because of their speed. See the difference?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But there is no evidence that Xavier can mindhaxx or kill a group of telepaths without some serious amplification in a combat scenario. (Note that I don't make any sort of contention about Cerebro-empowered Xavier.)

Yes there is. All Cerebro does is enhance Xavier's powers to be able to hit a larger area of influence.

This means a non-Cerebro using Xavier can kill people with his mind (but he never chooses to do so due to CIS) in his area of influence.

Cerebro expands these abilities to be world-wide. We don't know how far reaching Xavier's are without Cerebro. By feats, the furthest he exerted absolute control was in a mall full of people. So we can assume that that is his maximum area of influence but we cannot assume it is any less. We might be able to make a case for it being much greater but that would be speculation. I am not willing to entertain the possibility that Xavier cannot kill people with his mind inside his area of influence. That's just asinine gimping/trolling on other people's parts.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Sorry force greater than mutant telepathy. Try again.

Ignored.

The mall and probably at least to the extent of the parking lot around it. People would have noticed if they looked in the mall and everyone was frozen.

Originally posted by Kotor3
What is this suppose to prove?

Let me catch you up since you are so eager to join the conversation. There is nothing that proves they will not be able to sense Quicksilver through the force and not target him with the force. That should not even be argued as I stated the first time.

Question is will they be able to react in time. If he doesn't take them out with the first or second attack he will die from a force choke.

Vader has shown this ability to perform without moving, waving his hands, and while talking.

Once again what is there defense against force?

How can you react to someone who is a speedster of that level? The force is not a instant on form of power. It takes time and concentration to complete tasks. Most of the time they user is rendered immobile for big tasks, such as force choke, big lifts and such. Vadar never choked anyone while on the move or while they were on the move, if he could have choked Obi Wan out a few times.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Quicksilver moving faster than thought is something I don't remember, actually.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/explore/nervous-journey

150 m/s is how fast their thoughts would work.

Does Quicksilver mover faster than 150m/s?

This doesn't account for the Force Users' Battle Precog.

Edit - As I have calced before, 5 sources of blaster bolts, each bolt moving between 200-400 MPH, is enough to overwhelm the battle precog of a Jedi Master.

To be generous, if Quicksilver is faster than 5x400Mph, then, yes, he is even faster than the "thoughts" and battle precog abilities of the Force Users.