Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What part of this statement/revelation:You did not get?
Originally posted by Nephthys
As I said, that's because she only actually used the technique right before her death. There was no time for her to become enslaved to the power.facepalmx
Traya attacked Jedi Masters on Dantooine. After this event, Surik spent time on Telos, then their was an interlude, and then progress towards Malachor V.
Also, nothing suggests that Traya hadn't learned this power earlier.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That overrules nothing. It is similar but not the same and Vitiate was consumed by his hunger. Also he surpassed him? That's a laugh-riot. Vitiate needed 8000 Sith Lords and a weeks long ritual to do what Nihilus did by himself in under a hour. Nihilus also destroyed everything on the planet Katarr barring Visas by the way. Go educate yourself and watch Unseen, Unheard on youtube.
Ritual was just a ruse, a fake promise from Emperor Vitiate to survivors of Great Hyperspace War that it would grant them enormous power, it didn't.
I suggest that you recheck all available information about this ritual.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan doesn't know the technique. Stop saying he does. He exhibited none of the effects of the technique nor demonstrated mastery of it. The Kotor CG giving him the power is just gameplay mechanics.
After Malak had been defeated, Bastila, like most other citizens of the Republic, had hoped to enjoy many decades of peace. Instead, a group of rogue Jedi had broken away from the Order, plunging the galaxy once more into civil war. Led by a woman named Kreia, the rogue Jedi turned to the dark side teachings uncovered by Malak and Revan. Kreia took the name Darth Traya, and her followers called themselves the Sith after the long-lost species that had invaded the Republic a millennium before.
Talents assigned to characters in KoTOR-CG are not representative of game mechanics. They represent known abilities of each character.
Also, fellow member DarthAn66 offered additional input in this regard so I will not repeat his points.
Originally posted by Nephthys Translation: Legend doesn't like something so he says it's been retconned and that official sources are wrong. Wow, what a surprise. You are ignoring sources and only paying attention to the ones that seem to support your arguments. As usual.That Traya gained mastery of the technique doesn't mean she lied. She said the technique couldn't be taught, but could be learned by experiencing it's effects and through instinct.
Vitiate's ritual may be similar, yes. But he's never demonstrated the ability to use the attack like Traya and Nihilus have, to instantly drain another of the Force and feed on their death. If he did have this ability to use at his whim he would have easily defeated the Hero of Tython through use of it. Since the technique has no real defense. He didn't.
Except that Nihilus' drain by itself has a wide range of its uses and levels of ability. It's used in a wide variety of ways such as Force Drain has never been used anywhere else. Because it's a seperate, but similar, technique.
Ancients acquired the talent that she and Nihilus demonstrated and even performed it as apparent from actions of Emperor Vitiate. Darth Traya was not even aware of existence of Emperor Vitiate, she just figured that true Sith possibly existed somewhere. Darth Traya was not aware of events of Nathema either. Stop assuming that she have knowledge of everything, she does not, she is fallible.
I am not ignoring anything. I have focused on the big picture since the beginning but some people find it too hard to digest that Star Wars mythos have evolved beyond depictions of KoTOR II and perceptions of Mr. Avellone.
As far as Emperor Vitiate's actions against HoT are concerned, they are a product of PIS. Emperor Vitiate didn't choke HoT either, doesn't means he cannot. Authors tend to tell a story, Neph. Their will be no story to tell if Emperor Vitiate is depicted making best decisions every time.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh sweet Jesus, not this again. Vitiate didn't NEED to make them immortal in order to drain them. That's something you entirely MADE UP.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Severing herself from the Force isn't why she became a wound, by the way--It's how she survived the process.
The Sith Emperor can't drain Nihilus. Obviously.
The Sith Emperor probably does know how to defend against Force Drain however, this is also a given.
However it all depends on the location, because that will determine how much Living Force Nihilus can draw upon. If it were on Nathema, Nihilus would lose, if it were on Dromund Kaas Nihilus would likely win. Its very difficult to reach a conclusion on someone so relative to his enviroment.
Simply put, you cannot place Nihilus in a vacuum.
Originally posted by NephthysErr... yes it is?
Nihilus' power isn't relative to his environment though???
http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7520600&postcount=387
Nihilus gets all his power from the environment i.e. the Living Force.
This is a duel, and it's not like Nihilus' going to be living here for awhile. He has enough time for a fight where Vitiate only has his saber to fight with.
As for a duel here, if nowhere is specified, it's assumed to be neutral ground.
Nihilus is also still connected to the Force himself, even if he is an absence in it. That was supposed to be the only difference between him and the Exile.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Err... yes it is?http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7520600&postcount=387
Nihilus gets all his power from the environment i.e. the Living Force.
Uh, no it's not?
His power is relative to how well fed he is and how much he's drained. He doesn't get weaker in certain environments, that's dumb.
Since Ant didn't specify that he was weak from hunger and seems to have argued so far under the parameters of Nihilus at his peak, I'm assuming Nihilus is at his full strength here.
Originally posted by NephthysThat is part of the environment, and yes he would, through the course of the battle Nihilus powers would slowly deplete and without a well of energy he would be unable to reinvigorate himself. He may even make the mistake, being rather driven by his hunger, of attempting to drain the planet itself and it backfiring.
Uh, no it's not?His power is relative to how well fed he is and how much he's drained. He doesn't get weaker in certain environments, that's dumb.
Since Ant didn't specify that he was weak from hunger and seems to have argued so far under the parameters of Nihilus at his peak, I'm assuming Nihilus is at his full strength here.
If it were not the Sith Emperor he was up against then yes he would likely win, but against the Sith Emperor he will need all his power.
"Full strength" Nihilus is pretty non-descript. Nihilus doesn't have full strength, he is constantly getting stronger and stronger and stronger in terms of his capacity to draw on the Living Force, but the Living Force avaliable to him is constantly fluctuating.
For example we might say that Nihilus was at his strongest when he lifted the Ravager from the surface of Malachor, because he would have been amped by the DS nexus and been able to draw on that immense resvoir of power.
And yet this was prior to him draining Katarr, which would have greatly increased his capacity to drain.
Which one is stronger? Your guess is as good as mine.
EDIT: We might say actually that Nihilus was at his peak when he arrived at Telos IV, as as I recall he drained some planets en route so had had a few square meals. But even then we are guessing at just how much power that would have given him, would it have given him more power than Malachor? Maybe, but then Malachor is one of the most powerful DS nexuses in the galaxy. More power than Katarr? You'd think so, but then Katarr was a planet full of Force Sensitives as well the remainder of the Jedi Order.
Again, your guess is as good as mine. People often assume that Nihilus power level is stable and can be gauged, but within someone with no proper connection to the Force that couldn't be further from the truth.
If Nihilus could feed off Malachor, he wouldn't have been in anguish when Traya found him. 😬 Nihilus also has his own Force reserves to draw off of. It's not like he's unconnected to the Force. And he was obviously at his peak when he drained Katarr because that is the last known time he increased his reserves to extreme heights.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
That is part of the environment, and yes he would, through the course of the battle Nihilus powers would slowly deplete and without a well of energy he would be unable to reinvigorate himself. He may even make the mistake, being rather driven by his hunger, of attempting to drain the planet itself and it backfiring.If it were not the Sith Emperor he was up against then yes he would likely win, but against the Sith Emperor he will need all his power.
"Full strength" Nihilus is pretty non-descript. Nihilus doesn't have full strength, he is constantly getting stronger and stronger and stronger in terms of his capacity to draw on the Living Force, but the Living Force avaliable to him is constantly fluctuating.
For example we might say that Nihilus was at his strongest when he lifted the Ravager from the surface of Malachor, because he would have been amped by the DS nexus and been able to draw on that immense resvoir of power.
And yet this was prior to him draining Katarr, which would have greatly increased his capacity to drain.
Which one is stronger? Your guess is as good as mine.
EDIT: We might say actually that Nihilus was at his peak when he arrived at Telos IV, as as I recall he drained some planets en route so had had a few square meals. But even then we are guessing at just how much power that would have given him, would it have given him more power than Malachor? Maybe, but then Malachor is one of the most powerful DS nexuses in the galaxy. More power than Katarr? You'd think so, but then Katarr was a planet full of Force Sensitives as well the remainder of the Jedi Order.
Again, your guess is as good as mine. People often assume that Nihilus power level is stable and can be gauged, but within someone with no proper connection to the Force that couldn't be further from the truth.
God, you talk so much. >_<
But dude, that's true of anyone though. It isn't just Nihilus who depletes his Force reserves as he expends them. Everyone gets worn out over a long battle. Its true for Vitiate as much as it is him. Hardly a special property.
I take full strength Nihilus as whatever the strongest point we think he's at. Probably just after Katarr. A nexus isn't worth an entire planets worth of energy. Just take his best feats and argue from that point. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
Its not Telos though. He was starved at that point. I don't recall him having eaten before going there.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice??? Care to elaborate? Malachor V exudes dark side energy, it makes sense that he would be able to siphon this power.
If Nihilus could feed off Malachor, he wouldn't have been in anguish when Traya found him. 😬 Nihilus also has his own Force reserves to draw off of. It's not like he's unconnected to the Force. And he was obviously at his peak when he drained Katarr because that is the last known time he increased his reserves to extreme heights.
And yeah it pretty much is, a wound in the Force drains the Force, Nihilus wound in the Force was so powerful that it consumed his entire body, any living force inside of him would have been consumed as well.
And I'm pretty sure (if I recall) that the KOTOR CG says he gobbled up some planets on his way to Telos IV. I don't know.
Anyway lets for a moment assume that was his height of power, we have little clue how much power that would have given him and later Nihilus would have an expanded ability to draw on the Force in his environment, so that's definitely not Nihilus at his absolute peak.
I'm also picking up chatter that Traya and Nihilus Force Drain is not normal Force Drain? Haven't I explained this already?
Originally posted by NephthysYah but unlike most people Nihilus doesn't have a ceiling. There is a baseline for how powerful someone is when they are not exhausted.
God, you talk so much. >_<But dude, that's true of anyone though. It isn't just Nihilus who depletes his Force reserves as he expends them. Everyone gets worn out over a long battle. Its true for Vitiate as much as it is him. Hardly a special property.
I take full strength Nihilus as whatever the strongest point we think he's at. Probably just after Katarr. A nexus isn't worth an entire planets worth of energy. Just take his best feats and argue from that point. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.
Its not Telos though. He was starved at that point. I don't recall him having eaten before going there.
For Nihilus is literally all up in the air. It is completely dependent on how much energy he has drained as opposed to his capacity to wield the Force.
Just pointing out facts. However I raise this issue because I am not convinced that Nihilus could lift the Ravager without the help of a DS nexus.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceCause people don't get tired in duels...
This is a duel, and it's not like Nihilus' going to be living here for awhile. He has enough time for a fight where Vitiate only has his saber to fight with.As for a duel here, if nowhere is specified, it's assumed to be neutral ground.
Nihilus is also still connected to the Force himself, even if he is an absence in it. That was supposed to be the only difference between him and the Exile.
Sith Emperor will push Nihilus to his limits, if he doesn't have additional energy to draw upon he could well lose. More importantly if he does he could be unstoppable.
But anyway I'm assuming this is on non-descript planet no #14.
I don't see how someone can have a connection to the Force and literally be a rift in which the Force does not exist. The difference between him and the Exile is that his wound consumed him whereas the Exile's did not.
I mean the guy doesn't even have a body, he's a sentient black hole.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
??? Care to elaborate? Malachor V exudes dark side energy, it makes sense that he would be able to siphon this power.
And yeah it pretty much is, a wound in the Force drains the Force, Nihilus wound in the Force was so powerful that it consumed his entire body, any living force inside of him would have been consumed as well.
And I'm pretty sure (if I recall) that the KOTOR CG says he gobbled up some planets on his way to Telos IV. I don't know.
Anyway lets for a moment assume that was his height of power, we have little clue how much power that would have given him and later Nihilus would have an expanded ability to draw on the Force in his environment, so that's definitely not Nihilus at his absolute peak.
I'm also picking up chatter that Traya and Nihilus Force Drain is not normal Force Drain? Haven't I explained this already?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cause people don't get tired in duels...
Sith Emperor will push Nihilus to his limits, if he doesn't have additional energy to draw upon he could well lose. More importantly if he does he could be unstoppable.
But anyway I'm assuming this is on non-descript planet no #14.
I don't see how someone can have a connection to the Force and literally be a rift in which the Force does not exist. The difference between him and the Exile is that his wound consumed him whereas the Exile's did not.
I mean the guy doesn't even have a body, he's a sentient black hole.