Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Force still knows where they are, according to every other sever, so while they cannot use the Force, they are still detected in it.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And once again, Surik was not in the known galaxy, so she would not be able to be found by Revan while he searched the known galaxy with the Force.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nathema isn't a living being, so trying to use it as evidence is foolworthy. The living things on the planet held it's power. Obviously if they are no longer there, the Force won't be either.
Nathema became a void in the Force by virtue of Emperor's consuming actions, use of Force Drain.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
1. But there are no people on Malachor. According to the CG he continued to feed, it doesn't specify what on. It stands to reason that he would have inadvertently otherwise siphoned the planet's energy, because Force Drain is a power that allows you to siphon Force Energy.
There is no reason I can fathom why he couldn't do this.
Couldn't use the Force? That is an assumption on your part, he could well have been a Jedi. Not that that is important, he could use Force Drain and that would have been enough.
Again, his hunger was insatiable. He moved on to bigger prospects. The power of Malachor can't compare to the power of worlds or the power of the galaxy for that matter.
Simply put content is not a word in Nihilus vocabulary.
2. Yeah, so basically substitute hunger for Force Wound and that's what I said. The Force Drain is not special in itself, its just Force Drain, but because there is a wound every time you drain the wound gets bigger and that wound or hunger is what consumed him. In turn it also makes one use of Force Drain more powerful and instinctive.
3. Vast is a vague term however. But with the Sith Emperor we have feats, Nihilus has no feats aside from drain drain drain. Then this one time where he TKed in the presence of a DS nexus which apparently he can't tap into cause reasons.
5. Well that's nice. Oh wait author's words are not canon. Though I'd love you to provide a quote because as far as I'm concerned the only difference is that due to the presence of a Force wound the user can siphon the energies of others instinctively with no detriment to himself, as instead of being fueled by his dark side power its fueled purely by the hunger of the wound. Its drain with no drawbacks, and because of the perennial presence of the wound its always on. So all you need to do is be in the presence of a Force User to be empoweredSo yes, it is different. But ultimately all forms of Force Drain do the same thing, they siphon the Living Force of that and those around them. Period.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Force exists irrespective of presence of life-forms.Nathema became a void in the Force by virtue of Emperor's consuming actions, use of Force Drain.
Considering the Yuuzhan Vong were in another galaxy when they were cut off from the Force, I'd say the Force does exist in other galaxies.
Can you provide evidence?
As for Revan sensing the Exile, she still wasn't in the galaxy. Well past the Outer Rim, until KotOR began, is what I mean.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice1. Its a metaphor. Just as light cannot exist in a black hole (the total absence of light), the Force cannot exist in a total absence of the Force. Its impossible.
Nihilus is not a black hole, and is obviously still connected to the Force, as he was able to use it without being bonded to Kreia. The Exile could form bonds, and this had nothing to do with her being a Wound.Nathema isn't a living being, so trying to use it as evidence is foolworthy. The living things on the planet held it's power. Obviously if they are no longer there, the Force won't be either.
This is based on nothing but your opinion. The Force would still have to exist in a Wound for Nihilus to make any sense. He still stores power and preserves it to use.
TK isn't drain, but he still uses it. If this were true, Drain would be Nihilus' only talent. To use the Force, you kind of have to use the Force.
No he didn't. The CG clearly states that he bound his power and consciousness to his robes and armor.
I have no idea what bonds with Kreia have to do with this. The only reason Nihilus could use the Force was because the wound allowed him to drain and manipulate the Force around him, acting as an alternative power source of sorts. This is where the entirety of his power came from. His hunger:
His power is great, and it comes from hunger. He is a wound in the Force, more presence than flesh, and in his wake, life dies... sacrificing itself to his hunger.
--Visas Marr
His power comes from his wound, not his so called connection to the Force.
Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last, the whole of the galaxy becomes food—for Nihilus has become the hunger..
--Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
"Totally" does not mean a bit, or mostly, it means absolutely. Nihilus was absolutely consumed by his wound, all his Living Force was obliterated - instead he embodies his wound. If you want to explain how an total absence in the Force can have a connection to the Force then do so. I see no logic.
2. That is what I mean. Nathema represents an absence of life, and where there is an absence of life the Living Force cannot exist. Nathema was an absence of life because it is a wound in the Force. Nihilus is a wound in the Force, therefore Nihilus is an absence of life, and where there is an absence of life the Living Force cannot exists i.e. Nihilus has no connection to the Living Force.
As Traya so aptly puts it:
He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.
FYI: Dead people don't have connections to the Living Force.
3. The description of the wounds created when the Jedi Masters are killed:
This master is dead...drained of life. His body is worse than lifeless, it's like an absence in the Force.
--Taken from Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Absence: state of being away or not being present
i.e. a place where the Force is not present. You know, like on Nathema. If the Living Force still existed in a wound then people would be able to use the Force on Nathema. They cannot. Explain.
Nowhere is stated that Nihilus stores or preserves power. That is nothing but your opinion and not logical considering the wound would devour it. Far more likely this that to use the Force he drains whatever energy is currently around him and channels that into an attack - not store it up in his cheeks.
And of course, each time he drains, his capacity to drain increases and so he can drain more energy to channel into abilities.
That is a far more logical assumption to make and does not conflict with the fact that if he tried to store this energy, it would be devoured.
4. As I've said already, Nihilus drains the Force around him - using Force Drain - then uses that energy to pull off other Force feats. That is using the Force.
I really do not think what how on earth you think it works. So what does he drain then? Jelly? Is he really just a powerful Force User who likes jelly?
5. /sigh The power Nihilus used is called essence transfer. Which involves transferring your spirit or essence into a body or object. Nihilus performed this ritual by binding his spirit to his armor.
As he died, Darth Nihilus's body seemed to melt away into nothingness, as he somehow managed to encase his spirit in his battle armor When the armor was transported to Korriban for burial, his spirit traveled with it, and the connection to Korriban's dark side nexus allowed the spirit of Nihilus to maintain contact with the physical world.
--The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
The KOTORCG says he displaced his persona, this is the same thing. Essence transfer and preserving one's spirit in general is all about perserving one's consciousness after the death of one's living body. Essences do not have any living force because there is no living tissue or midichlorians. They are cosmic energy.
"Lord Nihilus, you escaped death by containing your consciousness within your armor. How?!"
―Darth Krayt (Legacy: Broken)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
? I don't remember the Vong ever being shown connected to the Force in any shape or form.
Courtesy of Wookieepedia:
As discovered by the Jedi during the war with the Yuuzhan Vong they are apparently "absent" from the Force. In the book The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force by James Luceno, the reason for this is given. The Yuuzhan Vong are not "absent" from the Force; their entire species has been cut off from it. It is surmised in the novel that this was implemented by the intelligence of their homeworld, the seed of which would one day become Zonama Sekot, because of their warmongering and hostile takeovers of other species.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Courtesy of Wookieepedia:As discovered by the Jedi during the war with the Yuuzhan Vong they are apparently "absent" from the Force. In the book The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force by James Luceno, the reason for this is given. The Yuuzhan Vong are not "absent" from the Force; their entire species has been cut off from it. It is surmised in the novel that this was implemented by the intelligence of their homeworld, the seed of which would one day become Zonama Sekot, because of their warmongering and hostile takeovers of other species.
@Beni: I'll try to find time to answer your back to back essays.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And everything there died. But if you can show that the absence of life there didn't have an impact, I'll gladly concede.
When the ritual ended, Nathema was no longer a world. It was a husk sucked dry.*
&
It took him several moments to realize what was wrong, and even when he did, he didn't fully grasp the implications. He wasn't feeling the Force. The sensation was completely alien. The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted. But it was always there in some way, shape, or form. Now, however, he felt nothing. He had become so accustomed to the presence of the Force in the background that its complete absence was almost overwhelming, leaving him unable to speak.*
Realize how powerful Emperor's drain is when he gets really angry? Now this is (special) drain.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
When has anyone severed from the Force been shown to not be connected to the Force? The Exile is a unique case and is treated as such. If severing her would make her a Wound, why would the Council try to exasperate the situation?
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
As for Revan sensing the Exile, she still wasn't in the galaxy. Well past the Outer Rim, until KotOR began, is what I mean.
This;
Revan was too busy trying to process all he had learned to react to her comment. If Meetra was cut off from the Force, that would explain why he hadn't been able to sense her presence.*
Even though:
Once he had tried to reach out to her with the Force. Serving in battle with someone formed a special bond; even across the breadth of the galaxy he should have been able to get some vague sense of her presence. Yet he had felt nothing. The simplest explanation was that she had become one with the Force, but Revan couldn't allow himself to believe she was dead.*
--
*Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Page 314-315 of The Unifying Force, between Jacen and Jaina:
"We serve the Force,' Jacen said. "None other."
"Is that justification enough for obliterating the Yuuzhan Vong?"
"No," he said, seemingly more firmly than he had intended. "They are not outside the Force. According to Sekot, they have been stripped of the Force."
Also, on page 463:
"But even Onimi didn't understand that through his experiments he had also found a way to reverse the damage that had been done in the distant past to the Yuuzhan Vong. He had regained the Force!"
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here:When the ritual ended, Nathema was no longer a world. It was a husk sucked dry.
&
It took him several moments to realize what was wrong, and even when he did, he didn't fully grasp the implications. He wasn't feeling the Force. The sensation was completely alien. The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted. But it was always there in some way, shape, or form. Now, however, he felt nothing. He had become so accustomed to the presence of the Force in the background that its complete absence was almost overwhelming, leaving him unable to speak.
Realize how powerful Emperor's drain is when he gets really angry?
What do you think the word "severed" implies?
Where had she gone?
This;Revan was too busy trying to process all he had learned to react to her comment. If Meetra was cut off from the Force, that would explain why he hadn't been able to sense her presence.
Even though:
Once he had tried to reach out to her with the Force. Serving in battle with someone formed a special bond; even across the breadth of the galaxy he should have been able to get some vague sense of her presence. Yet he had felt nothing. The simplest explanation was that she had become one with the Force, but Revan couldn't allow himself to believe she was dead.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Page 314-315 of The Unifying Force, between Jacen and Jaina:"We serve the Force,' Jacen said. "None other."
"Is that justification enough for obliterating the Yuuzhan Vong?"
"No," he said, seemingly more firmly than he had intended. "They are not outside the Force. According to Sekot, they have been stripped of the Force."
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Everything is still dead, so you really didn't prove anything.
Emperor consumed the Force itself around planet Nathema. This planet is not a wound in the Force, a void in the Force.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I don't care about what it implies, I care about what it does. Force Storm doesn't imply a wormhole, but there you go.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Your guess is as good as mine. She obviously went on a soul searching journey that involved no people, yet she was somehow able to get food and water. The games not about making sense.True enough, though this was a retcon on Drew's part. He didn't know the Exile said she left the galaxy. Was it his attempt to salvage KotOR, maybe. Probably not though.
She was not connected to the Force at this point, this is why Revan wasn't able to detect her, sense her. He would have otherwise.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
🙄Emperor consumed the Force itself around planet Nathema. This planet is not a wound in the Force, a void in the Force.
You should care, I want an official explanation of this matter.
She was in the galaxy somewhere, the galaxy in which all Star Wars events take place.
She was not connected to the Force at this point, this is why Revan wasn't able to detect her, sense her. He would have otherwise.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Thanks. Of course, I don't understand the process, but considering we're talking about humans here, as Visas implies, I'm going to go with how most of them act. I've never seen any other species survive without the Force, the Exile on Nathema shows a few things to. Still, your point is valid.
You're welcome. I could be wrong, but I've always looked at Force Wounds as more akin to an amputation of the Force, rather than a full on absence.
Originally posted by Selenial
It's said she wasn't in Republic Space, but that doesn't mean she wasn't in the Galaxy...
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He still killed the everything by draining it. Your just assuming.
Emperor Vitiate not just consumed entire biota of Nathema, he consumed the Force itself surrounding the planet. This is why the Force does not exists in this planet. The Force exists everywhere otherwise, it is a metaphysical field of energy covering entire universe.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Officially, Sever Force has never made anyone a Force Wound, which are bound to kill the Force. The Council would never use something that they would think would kill the Force.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
KotOR II says otherwise.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Of course she wasn't. But that was because of the severity of her sever, not the fact that she was a Wound in the Force. If a Wound in the Force were not connected, Nihilus wouldn't be able to use it, and Malachor wouldn't be a nexus.
She used a Force Sever application to cut off her connection with the Force. This is what I am trying to tell you; Force Sever application cuts a Force-user off the Force, the Force-user then cannot be sensed due to lack of connectivity with the Force.