Darth Nihilus vs The Sith Emperor

Obviously Nihilus has to exist somewhere to store his power in his robes. If he truly didn't exist somewhere in the Force, that wouldn't be possible. Now that I think on it, being a Force Wound most likely has less to do with lacking midichlorians, which would probably kill you, and more to do with those midichlorians not being able to communicate to everything else. The power you have isn't connected to the Force. You can find the Force, but the Force can't find you. The Exile couldn't be found by the Force, and she also couldn't find it, being severed.

Of course, Force Wounds never made sense to begin with.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yah but unlike most people Nihilus doesn't have a ceiling. There is a baseline for how powerful someone is when they are not exhausted.

For Nihilus is literally all up in the air. It is completely dependent on how much energy he has drained as opposed to his capacity to wield the Force.

Just pointing out facts. However I raise this issue because I am not convinced that Nihilus could lift the Ravager without the help of a DS nexus.

Vitiate will be expending power at a similar rate anyway, so I don't see how it matters. Its not as if Vitiate would have anything to draw on on Nathema either.

Ok.

I'm pretty dang sure he could. Nihilus wasn't at his pinnacle yet. I don't think he'd omm nommed any planets by that point.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Obviously Nihilus has to exist somewhere to store his power in his robes. If he truly didn't exist somewhere in the Force, that wouldn't be possible. Now that I think on it, being a Force Wound most likely has less to do with lacking midichlorians, which would probably kill you, and more to do with those midichlorians not being able to communicate to everything else. The power you have isn't connected to the Force. You can find the Force, but the Force can't find you. The Exile couldn't be found by the Force, and she also couldn't find it, being severed.

Of course, Force Wounds never made sense to begin with.

Meetra Surik would not have regained her Force sensitivity and healed, if her Midichlorians had been destroyed.

However, I don't get "You can find the Force" part.

The Force exists everywhere, a Force-user can call upon the Force at any moment and in any region where Force exists because of this fact.

Force wound is a problematic concept though, as far as Nihilus is concerned. Only Surik's scenario have some logic, Surik became a wound by severing herself from the Force; logically, a Force-user, if severed from the Force, can be described a Force wound.

Not really. People severed from the Force go back to being normal people, who very much are still able to be found in the Force, as Ant and NewGuy pointed out. To become a Force Wound, something truly traumatic has to happen. Nihilus was crushed in gravity vortex, as well as losing his family and everything close to him. The Exile was farther away, but also felt betrayed by everyone, by the Council, by Revan, and by her own actions, so she severed herself in more ways than one. Not only the Force, but from who she was.

Honestly, Force Wound is a terrible concept. Obsidian have really messed-up with ground realities of Star Wars.

No arguments here. KotOR II, while a fun game to play, was middle finger to the EU.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The power that sustains him and the power that he uses are not the same thing. It never is. If Nihilus could live off of Malachor, he wouldn't have had to drain others.

Nihilus consumed himself because of the Drain he used, not the fact that he was a Force Wound.

It doesn't.

We hear nothing of him consuming any planets after Kattar. We know that he consumed some before, but none after. In fact, Nihilus was looking for a place to feed, preferably high in Force Sensitive populations, because otherwise, it would hurt more than it would help.

The author's word > your word.

Nihilus hunger was insatiable, he wouldn't be content with Malachor. But ultimately is s a DS nexus so I don't see how you can claim he can't siphon that energy, that is what he does.

2. Want to explain how that works?

3. Oh well.

4. I think you misread. I'm saying that we have little idea of just how much power draining Katarr would have gave him.

5. And yet as far as I can tell your trying to claim that Nihilus drained people's Force not their life Force, despite them being the same thing and the KOTOR CG (i.e. the others) using the life force terminology.

Unless there is a quote I missed?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not really. People severed from the Force go back to being normal people, who very much are still able to be found in the Force, as Ant and NewGuy pointed out. To become a Force Wound, something truly traumatic has to happen. Nihilus was crushed in gravity vortex, as well as losing his family and everything close to him. The Exile was farther away, but also felt betrayed by everyone, by the Council, by Revan, and by her own actions, so she severed herself in more ways than one. Not only the Force, but from who she was.

Force Sever application blocks a Force User's access to the Force. Basically a Force-user's Midichlorians are blinded or disrupted. A Force-user can survive in this situation but he lacks connection with the Force, so he cannot be sensed.

This is why Revan could not find Meetra Surik, she had cut herself off the Force. Force Wound is sounds like a theoretical description of her condition.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No arguments here. KotOR II, while a fun game to play, was middle finger to the EU.

The Star Forge wasn't the best idea, imo. It came off as Star Wars' darkside equivalent of the replicators in Star Trek.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
1. He gobbled up one guy instinctively on Malachor, that is how he learned the power. How the hell do you think he survived up until Traya found him?

Nihilus hunger was insatiable, he wouldn't be content with Malachor. But ultimately is s a DS nexus so I don't see how you can claim he can't siphon that energy, that is what he does.

2. Want to explain how that works?

4. I think you misread. I'm saying that we have little idea of just how much power draining Katarr would have gave him.

5. And yet as far as I can tell your trying to claim that Nihilus drained people's Force not their life Force, despite them being the same thing and the KOTOR CG (i.e. the others) using the life force terminology.

Unless there is a quote I missed?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice

No it's not. The only difference between them is that the Exile cut herself off from the Force. Nihilus himself is an absence of the Force, but the power that he wields is not. It's the same energy that is around literally everyone else, and the drain that he uses expands the amount of power he can use and store.

No he isn't. He was able to store his energy in his robes and armor, so contrary to your belief on how Force Wounds work, he still had had power somewhere.

For example as you so rightly pointed out, people can't use the Force on Nathema, a wound in the Force. You still think Nathema has its connection to the Living Force? Of course it doesn't. Just like Nihilus, it is an absence in the Force, where Living Force does not exist.

The Force can't exist in a wound, Nihilus' wound consumed him, therefore he has no Living Force. That is why they describe him as "already dead" and why wounds are described as "worse than lifeless, like an absence in the Force." No the power Nihilus wields is not a wound, because he draws that from outside himself.

The drain he uses siphons Living Force, and a by-product of that enlarges the wound as it feeds, expanding his capacity to drain the Force not to use it.

He was able to bind his spirit to the Force, spirits are cosmic not living force. So yes Nihilus existed in some form, but not in a living form.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
???

Force Sever application blocks a Force User's access to the Force. Basically a Force-user's Midichlorians are blinded or disrupted. A Force-user can survive in this situation but he lacks connection with the Force, so he cannot be sensed.

This is why Revan could not find Meetra Surik, she had cut herself off the Force. Force Wound is sounds like a theoretical description of her condition.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Obviously Nihilus has to exist somewhere to store his power in his robes. If he truly didn't exist somewhere in the Force, that wouldn't be possible. Now that I think on it, being a Force Wound most likely has less to do with lacking midichlorians, which would probably kill you, and more to do with those midichlorians not being able to communicate to everything else. The power you have isn't connected to the Force. You can find the Force, but the Force can't find you. The Exile couldn't be found by the Force, and she also couldn't find it, being severed.

Of course, Force Wounds never made sense to begin with.

I expect Force Drain kills midichlorians at its most extreme levels.

Sever Force doesn't necessarily create a Force Wound however, these are two totally different things.

If you ever get confused about something being seemingly impossible in SW, just remember your old buddy Kreia's got the answer:

"Nothing is impossible with the Force."

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Force still knows where they are, according to every other sever, so while they cannot use the Force, they are still detected in it. Force Sever has never made one a Wound before. And once again, Surik was not in the known galaxy, so she would not be able to be found by Revan while he searched the known galaxy with the Force.

The Yuuzhan Vong were cut off from the Force, by their home planet, and Luke's Jedi order couldn't detect them in or affect them with the Force.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
[B]The means by which the wound was created is irrelevant, a wound is a wound. Nihilus as you said is an absence in the Force, how can an absence in the Force have a connection to the Force? It can't, else its not an absence is it? Black Holes don't have little dancing lights in them.

For example as you so rightly pointed out, people can't use the Force on Nathema, a wound in the Force. You still think Nathema has its connection to the Living Force? Of course it doesn't. Just like Nihilus, it is an absence in the Force, where Living Force does not exist.

The Force can't exist in a wound, Nihilus' wound consumed him, therefore he has no Living Force. That is why they describe him as "already dead" and why wounds are described as "worse than lifeless, like an absence in the Force." No the power Nihilus wields is not a wound, because he draws that from outside himself.

The drain he uses siphons Living Force, and a by-product of that enlarges the wound as it feeds, expanding his capacity to drain the Force not to use it.

He was able to bind his spirit to the Force, spirits are cosmic not living force. So yes Nihilus existed in some form, but not in a living form.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
The Yuuzhan Vong were cut off from the Force, by their home planet, and Luke's Jedi order couldn't detect them in or affect them with the Force.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Vong are not from the same galaxy. It's not really fair to compare them to someone who is, when literally every source says that these people would die without the Force.

What difference does it make what galaxy they're from?

The Force hasn't been shown to even exist in any other galaxies. That's why.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
By continuing to eat other people. In the CG, it goes on that he was in agony and that Traya was his last hope.

because Nihilus also didn't know how to use the Force and thus can't tap into anything. He also couldn't feed of the nexus either, otherwise he would stay there.

It's a form of Drain that has draw backs that increase hunger. A hunger so great that it'll eventually turn on the user and deteriorate their mind.

? Why would that matter? Think of what Nathema gave Vitiate. It's stated that his power grew vastly, so that's enough in my book to put them in the same league. We don't know how much power training give Jedi X, but we knew Jedi X grew stronger relative to the amount of training.

The author said that it's a different drain that works in a different way, and Avellone's words >yours. There is really no discussion.

There is no reason I can fathom why he couldn't do this.

Couldn't use the Force? That is an assumption on your part, he could well have been a Jedi. Not that that is important, he could use Force Drain and that would have been enough.

Again, his hunger was insatiable. He moved on to bigger prospects. The power of Malachor can't compare to the power of worlds or the power of the galaxy for that matter.

Simply put content is not a word in Nihilus vocabulary.

2. Yeah, so basically substitute hunger for Force Wound and that's what I said. The Force Drain is not special in itself, its just Force Drain, but because there is a wound every time you drain the wound gets bigger and that wound or hunger is what consumed him. In turn it also makes one use of Force Drain more powerful and instinctive.

3. Vast is a vague term however. But with the Sith Emperor we have feats, Nihilus has no feats aside from drain drain drain. Then this one time where he TKed in the presence of a DS nexus which apparently he can't tap into cause reasons.

5. Well that's nice. Oh wait author's words are not canon. Though I'd love you to provide a quote because as far as I'm concerned the only difference is that due to the presence of a Force wound the user can siphon the energies of others instinctively with no detriment to himself, as instead of being fueled by his dark side power its fueled purely by the hunger of the wound. Its drain with no drawbacks, and because of the perennial presence of the wound its always on. So all you need to do is be in the presence of a Force User to be empowered.

So yes, it is different. But ultimately all forms of Force Drain do the same thing, they siphon the Living Force of that and those around them. Period.