Originally posted by Galan007
so now we are stooping so low as to compare superman and shazam...characters whom have ALWAYS been portrayed as physical peers...to black panther arm-barring surfer? jesus christ. facepalm
It'S accurate. BP is physically = CM. Superman is however >>> SS.
I understand that carver falls for it, but you? Damn, you are getting old.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
He couldn't break free with strength, only with other powers. Good example. With the right grip, you can hold someone stronger than you, rather easy.
Lol...never stated. He let Black Panther do that to get info out of him. That's why people don't use that scan as an example of Surfers strength due to the context of it.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Where is this "one handed" throw? How anyone would see that from these scans is beyond me.And a big lol at making a claim that this ship toss is definitive proof that Superman > Cpt. Marvel in strength. How can one even dignify that claim when factors that are staring you at your face like momentum and velocity are completely overlooked? I mean seriously.. 🙁
Originally posted by carver9
He's desperate. Especially when we have Cap stalemating Superman 3 times in strength locks in that comic and at one point, had Superman Ina hold that he was unable to break.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85👆
Becasue Superman defies the rules of physics like momentum and velocity.Ergo, >>>>Marvel.
This is what I think and for this I will use a Marvel example
We have Thor and Hulk and most of the times when they fight they seem kind of "equal" ish.
Thor is a trained warrior with a magical enchanted hammer
Hulk is a brute troglodite.
But they always seem to look "equal" ish
Take into account that Hulk is just a brute who happens to counter Thor's warrior training and enchanted mallet with brute force.
to me that indicates that maybe Thor is not as strong as We might think.
Because if THOR was as equaly strong as the Hulk, Thor should murder Hulk because he has the advantage of the warrior training PLUS the enchanted mallet, yet it does not happen. to me this means that Hulk is physically stronger.
When you compare their overall average strength feats on their own books , Hulk's feats piss all over Thor's feats.
Now Superman vs CM
CM has the magic advantage that Superman has to somehow compensate. Also take into account their fights with common opponents and Superman most of the time comes up looking better.
Out of the top of my head to compare this we can see their fights vs Blaze or their fights vs the Ace androids.
I don't want to start a shitstorm, Just my two cents.
Originally posted by carver9
Clear stalemate in a strength lock.http://i.imgur.com/efpmdfF.jpg
Unable to break Cap's hold.
http://i.imgur.com/BpQTorh.jpg
Cap floors him with a head smash.
http://i.imgur.com/BYevMwo.jpg
Superman does the same thing here and Cap is still on his toes and is still holding Superman in place.
I'm surprised even you don't see the problems with this, and I know I should not be surprised.
Originally posted by Galan007So now we start ignoring actual statements made by characters? He was so fine that his injuries were too severe weeks after that. And you were the one clinging to the statement from Batman like your life depended upon it. Hypocritical much?
billy wasn't even KO'd in the wake of his battle with superman, and was even back up a few pages later:
http://i.imgur.com/O4IvriL.jpg
"injured"? sure. "almost killed"? absolutely not.On panel statement disagrees. Fire wondered that how he was alive.
you'll also note that billy states the following: "[Superman] was a lot tougher than I thought he would be. He fought a lot more SAVAGELY with Eclipso in him." ie. supes was bloodlusted, billy was not. 🙂That's why he said several times that he would go rough on superman, right? And cheapshotted him from behind at the start? Nobody's saying Superman wasn't bloodlusted but Cap wasn't holding back after this.
"Let's end this."
"You're forcing me to get rough here."
so again, that battle proves exactly what i've been saying: superman and shazam are near-equals, with superman ultimately gaining the advantage. if supes was vastly superior, as some have tried to claim, their battle wouldn't have lasted nearly an entire issue. 👆Superman's fights lasting one issue or five pages doesn't means much. After all he actually KOED Mon-El in five pages. Doesn't means that Cap was more powerful than Mon-El there.
not sure why you posted those unrelated superman-wank scans...they just make shazam look better. 👆What?
this has never been in question. don't know why you perpetually feel the urge to reiterate it..?Some people just can't accept it.
*FIRSTLY, shazam wasn't 'nearly killed'--that is a massive exaggeration of the truth. typically characters who are 'nearly killed' are ktfo and don't get back up in the very same issue a few pages later.Really? That's why Zod "nearly killed" J'onn just a few months ago and J'onn was back on his feet right after that? Or how Superman punched Lobo so hard that he was barely breathing and Lobo was back on his feet some pages later?
*SECONDLY, if you're going to quote me, please do so CORRECTLY. i never once said that superman and shazam are "equals"--"NEAR-equals" is the terminology i have consistently used. simple, no? 🙂There is no such thing as "nearly equals" if you get pounded in a paste and your adversary takes on three teams at once.
shazam says: "NO", and that somehow equates to him "shitting his pants" in your world? lol. facepalmHaha, what? You don't see Cap gritting his teeth and struggling to stop the ship for a whole page?
😂
This isn't struggling in your world?
Compared to casually throwing it?
furthermore, that 'logic' is terrible. are you aware that the mass of a body increases relative to its velocity?Haha, what? Are you suggesting that Superman threw the ship at near speed of light? Because unless Superman threw it near relativistic speed, there is no discernible gain of mass of an object.
so given the speed at which supes appeared to throw that ship, and the added mass it would've gained by proxy, pretty much ANY top-tier out there would have had to exert themselves to physically stop it. shazam doing so in 5 panels is actually quite impressive. 🙂You ARE really reaching there. Congrats bro. I'm really sure that Judd Winnick was thinking of relativistic theories writng that comic.
facepalmx
...but using that showing as proof that superman>shazam is just dumb. you're better than that.What, you're talking about excuses on relativistic theory in comics to explain Cap struggling and I can't make a claim that Superman was stronger than Cap there? Lulz.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Where is this "one handed" throw? How anyone would see that from these scans is beyond me.And a big lol at making a claim that this ship toss is definitive proof that Superman > Cpt. Marvel in strength. How can one even dignify that claim when factors that are staring you at your face like momentum and velocity are completely overlooked? I mean seriously.. 🙁
Originally posted by carver9
He's desperate. Especially when we have Cap stalemating Superman 3 times in strength locks in that comic and at one point, had Superman Ina hold that he was unable to break.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Who gave the ship that momentum? And who was struggling to stop that momentum? Make some excuses Celey, come on.
Bwahaha.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Where is this "one handed" throw? How anyone would see that from these scans is beyond me.And a big lol at making a claim that this ship toss is definitive proof that Superman > Cpt. Marvel in strength. How can one even dignify that claim when factors that are staring you at your face like momentum and velocity are completely overlooked? I mean seriously.. 🙁
So, dodging the question again? Got it. Here is something for you to make excuses for.
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view¤t=AdventuresOfSuperman494p17.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view¤t=AdventuresOfSuperman494p18.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view¤t=AdventuresOfSuperman494p19.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view¤t=AdventuresOfSuperman494p20.jpg
That was under Jerry Ordway, the primary writer of Captain Marvel post-crisis. Kismet showed what happens when Superman lets go of his human inhibitions. He actually killed Captain Marvel alongside Hal, Diana, Wally, Supergirl etc. That's how superior Superman is to Cap under his primary writer.
👆
Originally posted by Delta1938Wrong. You ignore the fact they have been stated as physical peers and fight in such a manner. Superman has the slightest of edges but not due to some physical advantage. They are even Steven in that regard.
CAPTAIN MARVEL, not Shazam, was pulling his punches, but as was Eclipsoed Superman, since Eclipso wanted Billy as a host and was trying to get him angry.Most posters I would think are just trolling, but I really do think you're this dense.
Billy wouldn't even survive that. He's a teenage human.
I love how you yet again miss Cap Zeus-Amping. You're really, REALLY bad at this. Just like your argument for Superman having a "small" strength advantage over Wonder Woman. That reminds me Kitty-Cat, still waiting for your response in the Superman vs Wonder Woman thread.
I wonder how much debt urine for those special classes.
It's awesomely hilarious how you two have been reduced to cheerleading each other over a conclusion that omits context. I don't know which one of you is dumb and which is dumber.
Originally posted by Delta1938You are ignoring the clear messages and Superman's words. You clearly are more interested in insulting than debating.
That's hilarious considering the scans I've posted. But hey, you're you. Don't you have something golden to beg for from Rob?
Superman's words, "in all ways I consider us equals."
Thanks for the assist Superman.
You're welcome, Quan. I hate my own fans.
I do too.
