She didn't die. She just transcended a physical body. A fan theory that sounds rather plausible is that by time travelling, she was, obviously, breaking the limits of time. Physics dictates that a physical body must move slower than the speed of light in order to exist. She clearly is FTL, so she must have ascended past the physical plane. She seems to exist as a quantum field itself, which is how she contacted Freeman on his phone. I doubt she can make avatars like Doc can though.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So exactly which Lucy is being used in this battle? While 100% Lucy would appear to have an edge, 99% Lucy can still be killed. Also while she can apparently time travel with her mind, she still appears to perceive time in a linear form: least that's what I gathered from this.
I'm guessing at 100%. Otherwise its a bloodbath.
Originally posted by Lestov16She could very well go back to the time Osterman was going to get locked into the intrinsic field separator and simply stop the door
NVM, I guess she did actually Time Travel, since she was able to interact with the OG Lucy and the dino. She's still a glass cannon until 100% though.
I've been reading the 'Before Watchmen' comics these past couple of days. It's given me a clearer understanding of Manhattans powers, and he is even more OP than I originally thought. In his comic, he splinters reality to make many multiples and then casually deletes those realities, deciding instead to keep the one we got in Watchmen. He refers to himself as a reality bender. He exists in all universes, at all times which is why it's impossible to kill or stop him. His physical body isn't his physical body, its just how he prefers to perceive himself to look, and it acts as an avatar for his consciousness which is in every reality/universe, at all times, perceiving everything. He's also shown the ability to bring people back to life and it shows him create life in a distant planet in another galaxy after the events of the movie/comic.
Originally posted by dadudemonHonestly, I'm not even sure how a reality bender could stop him. Most reality benders can change their own reality, and erase people from it, but how could they erase someone who exists across multiple realities at all points in the timestream? Especially when that someone is more of a high end reality bender than themselves?
Here's the problem:You can't really kill Manhattan...at all.
The only reason I think reality warpers are the only thing that beat him are obvious: anything at all that has to do with this physical plane will not kill Manhattan.
Reality warping such as time-travelers and powerful demi-gods are the only way to put Manhattan down.
The telepath argument is weak, at best, and completely wrong, at worst. We are stuck with reality warpers. 🙂
Someone like Surfer, or Thor? This is so far above them, it's f*cking ridiculous. No high herald is anywhere near Manhattans level. Even a time traveler doesn't work. He goes back to the point right before he gets atomized and stops it from happening. Despite this, he continues to exists.
Anything he wants to happen happens. It's just a choice away. What an insane character.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
I've been reading the 'Before Watchmen' comics these past couple of days. It's given me a clearer understanding of Manhattans powers, and he is even more OP than I originally thought. In his comic, he splinters reality to make many multiples and then casually deletes those realities, deciding instead to keep the one we got in Watchmen. He refers to himself as a reality bender. He exists in all universes, at all times which is why it's impossible to kill or stop him. His physical body isn't his physical body, its just how he prefers to perceive himself to look, and it acts as an avatar for his consciousness which is in every reality/universe, at all times, perceiving everything. He's also shown the ability to bring people back to life and it shows him create life in a distant planet in another galaxy after the events of the movie/comic.Honestly, I'm not even sure how a reality bender could stop him. Most reality benders can change their own reality, and erase people from it, but how could they erase someone who exists across multiple realities at all points in the timestream? Especially when that someone is more of a high end reality bender than themselves?
Someone like Surfer, or Thor? This is so far above them, it's f*cking ridiculous. No high herald is anywhere near Manhattans level. Even a time traveler doesn't work. He goes back to the point right before he gets atomized and stops it from happening. Despite this, he continues to exists.
Anything he wants to happen happens. It's just a choice away. What an insane character.
Yea people here say he is not omnipotent, I laugh at them for not understand DM. His power is unreal, I wish they made the before the watchmen movies like in the comics.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
I've been reading the 'Before Watchmen' comics these past couple of days. It's given me a clearer understanding of Manhattans powers, and he is even more OP than I originally thought. In his comic, he splinters reality to make many multiples and then casually deletes those realities, deciding instead to keep the one we got in Watchmen. He refers to himself as a reality bender. He exists in all universes, at all times which is why it's impossible to kill or stop him. His physical body isn't his physical body, its just how he prefers to perceive himself to look, and it acts as an avatar for his consciousness which is in every reality/universe, at all times, perceiving everything. He's also shown the ability to bring people back to life and it shows him create life in a distant planet in another galaxy after the events of the movie/comic.
This isn't an example of Manhattan being more powerful than originally thought, it's an example of the writer of Before Watchman having no idea what he's doing with the much more limited character Alan Moore created.
It's also irrelevant to the movie versus forum.
Originally posted by Lord LucienI like the analogy. Like I said, I cant really properly participate in this thread since I haven't yet seen Lucy, but I know Manhattan pretty well. If she gets as ridiculous as Manhattan is, your parallel seems appropriate.
This match feels like throwing a cup of air at another cup of air and declaring a winner based on which cup of air had a better movie.Their transcendental, time-less entities. They're not opponents, they're probably the exact same thing split in to both genders.
Originally posted by NemeBroManhattan wasn't a very limited character to begin with. Seriously, everyone complains that his powers are too abstract to understand, but the second we get something to gauge it off of, you're all too willing to throw it out because it goes against the outcome you're arguing for in a pointless thread. Sure, you can pull the "This is a a movie forum!' card, but it's just showing stuff he said he could already do in the original comic or movie. Of course, we cant go off what he said, because thats not a feat.
This isn't an example of Manhattan being more powerful than originally thought, it's an example of the writer of Before Watchman having no idea what he's doing with the much more limited character Alan Moore created.It's also irrelevant to the movie versus forum.
Versus forums are so f*cking retarded with their rules sometimes.
Originally posted by NemeBro
This isn't an example of Manhattan being more powerful than originally thought, it's an example of the writer of Before Watchman having no idea what he's doing with the much more limited character Alan Moore created.It's also irrelevant to the movie versus forum.
All of this was shown or talked about besides him going to the past and stopping the door from closing on him. He talks about creating life when he leaves earth. Just because he didn't specifically say all of his powers as that would take hours to explain, doesn't mean he can't do it or it be talked about here.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
I like the analogy. Like I said, I cant really properly participate in this thread since I haven't yet seen Lucy, but I know Manhattan pretty well. If she gets as ridiculous as Manhattan is, your parallel seems appropriate.Manhattan wasn't a very limited character to begin with. Seriously, everyone complains that his powers are too abstract to understand, but the second we get something to gauge it off of, you're all too willing to throw it out because it goes against the outcome you're arguing for in a pointless thread. Sure, you can pull the "This is a a movie forum!' card, but it's just showing stuff he said he could already do in the original comic or movie. Of course, we cant go off what he said, because thats not a feat.
Versus forums are so f*cking retarded with their rules sometimes.
Agreed, we can talk about whatever we want. Its like saying cause the movie Man of Steel didn't tell us how he flys, we cant therefore discuss on it because it was not explained in the movie.
Originally posted by Time ImmemorialStill, he's right. We cant really use a comic in a movie forum, even to understand/explain Manhattans powers. Until a Before Watchmen movie comes out, the comics are pretty much useless here. :/
Agreed, we can talk about whatever we want. Its like saying cause the movie Man of Steel didn't tell us how he flys, we cant therefore discuss on it because it was not explained in the movie.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Still, he's right. We cant really use a comic in a movie forum, even to understand/explain Manhattans powers. Until a Before Watchmen movie comes out, the comics are pretty much useless here. :/
As the thread is pointless we can use it to talk about whatever we want now. Fight is a stalemate if lucy is 100%, if 99% she loses. Simple as that.
Originally posted by Arachnid1Stop being a whiny little *****.
Manhattan wasn't a very limited character to begin with. Seriously, everyone complains that his powers are too abstract to understand, but the second we get something to gauge it off of, you're all too willing to throw it out because it goes against the outcome you're arguing for in a pointless thread. Sure, you can pull the "This is a a movie forum!' card, but it's just showing stuff he said he could already do in the original comic or movie. Of course, we cant go off what he said, because thats not a feat.Versus forums are so f*cking retarded with their rules sometimes.
He was explicitly incapable of stopping Russia's nuclear arsenal. If he could destroy all other alternate timelines and choose one that would be an exceedingly trivial matter for him. Hell, stopping WW3 would be a trivial matter for him.
He was only capable of viewing his own timeline in the original comic, he was not virtually omniscient.
In the original comic, he didn't "choose" which timelines were set, he was in fact powerless. Aware that choice is an illusion because everything is set in stone. Arguably this isn't the case by the end of the comic and he stops being so deterministic, but the ability to outright pick and choose timelines outright contradicts his original characterization.
Showing off what he could do? Bullshit. Before Watchmen isn't written by Alan Moore. In fact Moore hates Before Watchmen. It's a cash cow written by writers of varying talent and, in the case of the Manhattan one, didn't get the points of the original character or did and decided that wasn't "cool" enough so made him an overpowered flanderization of his original self.
The outcome I'm arguing in a pointless thread? Which is what? I don't give a dick who wins between Lucy and Manhattan.
Originally posted by NemeBroSaid the dude acting like a whiny little b*tch.
Stop being a whiny little *****.He was explicitly incapable of stopping Russia's nuclear arsenal. If he could destroy all other alternate timelines and choose one that would be an exceedingly trivial matter for him. Hell, stopping WW3 would be a trivial matter for him.
He was only capable of viewing his own timeline in the original comic, he was not virtually omniscient.
In the original comic, he didn't "choose" which timelines were set, he was in fact powerless. Aware that choice is an illusion because everything is set in stone. Arguably this isn't the case by the end of the comic and he stops being so deterministic, but the ability to outright pick and choose timelines outright contradicts his original characterization.
Showing off what he could do? Bullshit. Before Watchmen isn't written by Alan Moore. In fact Moore hates Before Watchmen. It's a cash cow written by writers of varying talent and, in the case of the Manhattan one, didn't get the points of the original character or did and decided that wasn't "cool" enough so made him an overpowered flanderization of his original self.
The outcome I'm arguing in a pointless thread? Which is what? I don't give a dick who wins between Lucy and Manhattan.
His 'before' comic doesn't leave the idea of everything being static behind. It expands on it, and explains why he came to understand how that all works in the first place. Its a kind of 'what if?' comic that shows what happens when he tries to change what he knows has to happen. It's not that he cant stop the nuclear arsenal (do you really think he cant just turn a nuke into a teddy bear?). He just chooses not to, like when he chose not to stop The Comedian from gunning down the pregnant girl in Vietnam. Changing something doesn't change the outcome in that static universe, it creates another static universe. That means two different universes; One where everything stayed the same because he chose to let it, and one where everything changed. His choices ended up splintering reality and causing realities that were pretty bad off themselves, so he chose to erase those realities and stick with his original.
And you're right, about him viewing his own timeline. I had phrased that wrong. That doesn't change in the 'Before' comics, although they do make him more aware for some reason. He does exist at all times throughout multiple realities and universes, but he doesn't see everything that goes on in those realities.
The 'Before' series is a cash grab, but its still cannon in Watchmen world whether you or Alan Moore (as good of a writer as he is, he's a complete f*cking tool) like it or not. And in the case of Manhattans run, it's one of the most highly reviewed of the bunch (a few other characters runs are also great, although some are pretty lame in that they just retread old material). The writers did an amazing job of explaining Manhattans abilities, while expanding on his character.
You haven't argued for Lucy, but you've had a pretty anti-Manhattan stance in your posts throughout this thread. I'm guessing you haven't argued for any one side, because you haven't seen Lucy, like myself. I just have a more pro-Manhattan stance.
Lucy has a vast array more of abilities than Manhattan. She could simply alter his atomic structure, because she can manipulate atomic structure as far as 80%, and stop him from existing at all. Period.
Or she could simply stop time, read his past, go back in time and in all universes that he's in, kill him before he was created.
Manhattan cannot do any of those things(save for atomic separation on the level of around 80% Lucy), and only has a non-linear perception of time. Lucy can literally control time, as well as most of Manhattan's abilities. She can also transcend universal limits, and becomes multiversal at 100%.