Originally posted by Trackz
[B]...Gorgon beat Shang Chi, Wolverine beat Gorgon (although Gorgon had Wolverine beat before trying to finish him off). It's clear that Shang-Chi did worse against the Gorgon than Wolverine did.
Wolverine certainly looked better then Elektra, which is impressive enough. He couldn't physically beat him, though. He admitted as much. And he had the benefit of experience, thanks to his prior fight with Elektra and S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents backing him up.
But lets look at their fights:
Fight 1: Gorgon vs Elektra and Wolverine.
This shows Gorgon's insane speed advantage and damage soak. Wolverine and Elektra had the benefit of prep, gear, a surprise attack, and fully armed S.H.I.E.L.D. support, and they couldn't even slow Gorgon down.
Is it any wonder Shang claimed his Stark gear wouldn't be enough to defeat this monster?
Continued next post.
Originally posted by iceman24567
👆 Straight up ignored his actually point not once but twice. Shit debating
I challenge you to a battlezone. You can use Shang Chi and I'll use someone below him like Nightwing or Punisher. Should be easy for you since I practice "shit debating." We can have judges and all that stuff. I'm pretty sure your statement about "shit debating" will come back to bite you. 😄
Wolverine vs Gorgon, 1 vs 1:
Wolverine charges Gorgon with a rocket, as Gorgon's distracted while dealing with S.H.I.E.L.D. agents. The h2h portion had Gorgon with a distinct advantage... To be blunt, Gorgon destroyed Wolverine here.
Yes, Logan landed a few attacks of his own, and yes, he had the presence of mind to counter Gorgon's stone stare, which is the mark of a great fighter. But if this was Captain America, or Daredevil, or Spidey taking what Wolverine took.....?
Or Shang, for that matter?
Continued in next post.
Shang Chi vs Gorgon:
Starting out, Shang not only doesn't have the support Wolverine had, he's also forced to deal with Gorgon's hand ninjas.
An example of Shangs speed/agility and intelligence. Already, he looks better then Elektra or Wolverine did in their fights, simply by virtue of scoring initiative without any support or distractions, except for the advantage he created mid fight (Smothering the torches with a Stark tech enhanced thunderclap.)
Durability and strength feat for Gorgon.
And, a durability feat for Shang. He gets sent flying pretty high and hard, and manages to shake it off, despite his lack of a healing factor.
Another example of Shangs intelligence. Also, a good accuracy feat, hitting someone with Gorgon's reflexes.
Continues...
Charges Gorgon (Without the aid of a rocket pack 😛 ), and scores an impressive blitz. Brings him to his knees.
And then, as your scans show, Gorgon tanks his attack, and lands one of his own, finishing the fight.
It's also important to note that Gorgon is using a sword that killed Mikiboshi, a.k.a. Chaos King, after he killed the skyfather Zeus. I doubt even Wolverine could tank a hit from that sword.
So, there you have it.
Shang displayed impressive speed, agility, ninja like misdirection skills, and tactics. He also had the advantage of Stark tech amping his attacks, and it still wasn't enough.
He lost because his damage dealing ability was < Gorgon's damage soak ability. As did Wolverine. But give him his due, it was a good fight, and he looked better then anyone thought he would, Stark tech or no..
As an aside, this was a pretty fun fight. I'd say this is right up there with Cassandra Cain vs Shiva, or Val Armorr vs Nemesis Kid. 🙂
Originally posted by SupermutantSo you can ignore any points i make 👇
I challenge you to a battlezone. You can use Shang Chi and I'll use someone below him like Nightwing or Punisher. Should be easy for you since I practice "shit debating." We can have judges and all that stuff. I'm pretty sure your statement about "shit debating" will come back to bite you. 😄
Originally posted by Trackz
we can't just assume he can do things he hasn't, otherwise we can assume blade has other vampiric abilities he hasn't demonstrated yet.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Mentioning about Blade performing different vampiric feats is a completely different thing, one vampiric ability could be completely different from the other. Whereas Shang-Chi blocking a punch from Hiroim it is reasonable to suggest that he could use his chi to block a hit from a sword. It's a completely different debate on what you're saying with Blade both of the things don't correlate.
Basically some posters in the Blade camp are using jacked up analogies, skewed comparisons and biased ABC logic.
Its one of the reasons this thread's gone for 6 pages.
Then there's this
Originally posted by One_Angry_ScotAgain I wasn't belittling Blade .
Just MO, but making Shang Chi out to be less than what he clearly is,is a lackluster debate tactic.
Both these characters are good, just in different ways.
Charges Gorgon (Without the aid of a rocket pack 😛 ), and scores an impressive blitz. Brings him to his knees.
And then, as your scans show, Gorgon tanks his attack, and lands one of his own, finishing the fight.
It's also important to note that Gorgon is using a sword that killed Mikiboshi, a.k.a. Chaos King, after he killed the skyfather Zeus. I doubt even Wolverine could tank a hit from that sword.
So, there you have it.
Shang displayed impressive speed, agility, ninja like misdirection skills, and tactics. He also had the advantage of Stark tech amping his attacks, and it still wasn't enough.
He lost because his damage dealing ability was < Gorgon's damage soak ability. As did Wolverine. But give him his due, it was a good fight, and he looked better then anyone thought he would, Stark tech or no..
As an aside, this was a pretty fun fight. I'd say this is right up there with Cassandra Cain vs Shiva, or Val Armorr vs Nemesis Kid. 🙂 [/B]
1. shang chi also received enhancements prior to the fight. i don't think it's fair to hold wolverine's rocket against him and not do the same for shang's stark tech.
2. wolverine did considerably more damage to gorgon, you can't ignore that.
3. we should bring up the different mindsets. gorgon didn't respect shang immediately, whereas he wanted to kill wolverine from the onset. it's a minor detail, but shang chi's first few hits came on a gorgon that hadn't taken him seriously yet.
4. i would say all things considered shang's fight was at best even with wolverine. they both landed about 3 or 4 real hits before getting put down easily.
I still don't understand how this feat should be used to shang chi in regards to blade. he got dismissed by Gorgon as much as anyone ever had. Like wolverine, he pulled out all of his best tricks just to stagger the gorgon.
it was a great fight from shang chi, but i'm not sure it can be used for or against him here. especially considering blade has actually beaten someone like Dracula who has dismissed people like Wolverine and pulled apart guys like Deadpool much easier than The Gorgon has. I would agree that this proves that Shang Chi is evidence that Shang Chi is a better fighter than Wolverine, though.
Originally posted by riv6672because you don't understand the analogy doesn't make it jacked up.
Basically some posters in the Blade camp are using jacked up analogies, skewed comparisons and biased ABC logic.
Its one of the reasons this thread's gone for 6 pages.Then there's this
Just MO, but making Shang Chi out to be less than what he clearly is,is a lackluster debate tactic.
Both these characters are good, just in different ways.
humanoid vampires in marvel all have the same abilities that grow over time. it's why no name vampires can still shape shift, mesmerize, and turn to mist. to give shang chi abilities he hasn't demonstrated is exactly the same as giving blade vampiric abilities he hasn't demonstrated.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
The problem is you're making assumptions about Chi you don't know it's a point we can't really debate on as it's never been shown but it's perhaps reasonable to assume he can. The argument can work both ways.And like I said I agreed with you about Gorgon I never mentioned Chi, and like I said to Supermutant.
It was just something I was bringing up to say if he was pressed into a dangerous situation i.e Blade knocked him to the ground he could save his own life. Like I said again with Gorgon it wouldn't matter whether Shang-Chi had the capability or not. Gorgon is so fast I doubt Shang-Chi could ever block a hit even if he wanted to.
You said this to me "Shang-Chi dodging bullets isn't evidence that Blade won't be able to tag him with the sword."
I never said Shang-Chi would dodge every single hit Blade threw at him I said it was reasonable to presume he would dodge a hit from Blade now and then and you can't disagree with that. I would never say Shang-Chi goes into the fight dodging every hit thinking Blade needs to sharpen up on his skills.
The only reason I said what he was using to attack didn't matter was the discussion between us was for the majority on speed, whatever the weapon was wouldn't matter until x character hits x character.
Sure Blade probably could decapitate Shang-Chi in one hit. And I agree with you that it is a plus for him was just stating that speed was more of a focus.
Again I would like to reiterate with my original post if you read it I never once made an argument saying Shang-Chi stomps 10/10 or Blade stomps 10/10. In fact you will notice I even posted the fight in which Shang-Chi got humiliated so everyone on this thread could see it, therefore gaining better knowledge of Shang-Chi's abilities so they could make an opinion.
My post was completely neutral, never stated a side either way. I intended to have that post as a benchmark for people to say.
"Oh I never knew Shang-Chi had dodged a bullet a bullet at point blank range, this makes the fight more even".
I'm not making the assumption that Shang chi can't do it. I'm saying because he hasn't done it, we can't assume he would in a forum debate.
i don't disagree that shang could dodge a hit now and then, but i don't see what the point of supporting that was when i claimed their speed could be even to begin with (although someone else did state that bullet timers would give shang chi trouble).
either way i never made any assumptions about your position, i was just addressing the points you were bringing up that i wasn't sure i completely agreed with. i could disagree with someone that thinks blade would win on details in their argument.
Originally posted by Trackz
because you don't understand the analogy doesn't make it jacked up.
I can do do this all week, guy; verbally running circles around lax, easily angered posters is kind of fun.
I and everyone else have already made our points, the rest is just a few folks likecyou, not letting things go.
Originally posted by riv6672the point of debate is that people challenge those points made. just because you say something doesn't mean it's valid. at this point you're just trolling.
Just because you make it understansable doesnt mean its not jacked up.I can do do this all week, guy; verbally running circles around lax, easily angered posters is kind of fun.
I and everyone else have already made our points, the rest is just a few folks likecyou, not letting things go.
Originally posted by riv6672
I think you're throwing out the T word to try and save face.Very petty if you. Considering you're doing the very thing you say i am and all.
1. the vast majority of your comments in this thread have been dismissing arguments rather than addressing them
2. you've added nothing to the thread other than you believing shang chi to be more experienced
3. i'll do us both a favor and block you.
