Talzin and Maul vs Sidious and Dooku

Originally posted by Marco1907

Ventress has good force combat feats, against Nightbrothers and Clone troopers, I don't recall any force combat feat (without lightsaber) of Dooku.

He's shown great resistance when Anakin choked him in Crisis on Naboo and tried to kill him. Once he got rid of Anakin, he just casually got back up. He wasn't still choking, was lying helpless for a few seconds and didn't seem in any pain at all.

Compare that to other combatants who just get kicked and take ages to get back up and are still seen struggling. Like when Dooku grabbed and chucked Kenobi to the floor in the final seaosn of TCW.

I don't know why you bring up (without a lightsbaer) when it's combat with Lightsaber we almost always discuss.

Fact is in all the fights between Anakin, Obi-Wan, Ventress and Dooku, it's Dooku who's shown the most powerful physical attacks, and the best resistance to physical attacks.

Anyway from now on refer to my thread on the matter.

@DARTH POWER

As I said before, Dooku saved himself with a force attack from Anakin's choke not via physical durability. That shows Dooku's force superiority, not a physical feat.

On the other hand, Obi-Wan saved himself with a kick from the same choke move of Anakin, that's shows a physical durability feat and puts Kenobi higher than Dooku in terms of physical.

Originally posted by Marco1907
@DARTH POWER

As I said before, Dooku saved himself with a force attack from Anakin's choke not via physical durability. That shows Dooku's force superiority, not a physical feat.

On the other hand, Obi-Wan saved himself with a kick from the same choke move of Anakin, that's shows a physical durability feat and puts Kenobi higher than Dooku in terms of physical.

Nope. Just because Kenobi managed to kick Skywalker off him, whilst Dooku resorted to a more lethal Force attack (one which Kenobi is not capable of) does not mean Dooku wasn't capable of also landing a kick.

In fact just look at that GIF of yours properly. Look at Kenobi's face expression how he's struggling badly with that choke. The look at Dooku's in "the same choke" and you will see Dooku clearly struggled less, and after taking a kick no less. Whilst Kenobi was brought to his knees by that choke. Dooku wasn't he was already floored via a kick. (And don't get me into the number of times Dooku's kicked Anakin, Kenobi and Ventress).

So if anything, that Proves Dooku is more durable than Obi-Wan. And has certainly showed a heck of a lot more strength in their confrontations.

Again your looking for any example anywhere trying to prove this ridiculous theory that Dooku is weak to physical attacks, when it's usually his opponents who are incapable of handling Physical attacks from him.

It's getting quite ridiculous now when you're saying things like "Hey look Dooku got hit that one time therefore he's weak to physical attacks!!!"

Anyway you can discuss this further in the Dooku vs Kinetic Energy thread I've made.

By the way,

Dooku wasn't making an effort to kill Anakin as he was Obi-Wan. Dooku could defeat Anakin via force attacks, as he did to Obi-Wan.

Here is the quote ;

"Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that." --George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.

Originally posted by Marco1907
By the way,

Dooku wasn't making an effort to kill Anakin as he was Obi-Wan. Dooku could defeat Anakin via force attacks, as he did to Obi-Wan.

Here is the quote ;

Not sure. Anakin seems to have tanked quite a bit of TK off Dooku during their TCW fights.

Perhaps Anakin's natural power allows him to tank TK better than Obi-Wan can.

But yeah still Dooku's force powers have always given him the definite edge over Anakin. During the Clone Wars at least.

Originally posted by Marco1907
By the way,

Dooku wasn't making an effort to kill Anakin as he was Obi-Wan. Dooku could defeat Anakin via force attacks, as he did to Obi-Wan.

Here is the quote ;

That is why Anakin in anger did not kill Dooku but chopped his hands away. That is why Windu disarmed Palpatine instead of killing. That is why Luke disarmed Vader instead of killing. That is why Kenobi didn't kill Opress. That is why Kenobi didn't kill Anakin. The bottom line is that ones you create an opening, it's a matter of choice which body part to strike after, and guess what, wrists are easier target.

And even if there is a chance that a Force user will accidentally kill someone in lightsaber combat. I will remind you that it is Force user. They have Force. They anticipate things. They can stop the attack causing shin strike that will disable opponent but not kill.

Are you guys not reading this ?

Palpatine : If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.

Dooku doesn't have the permission to kill Anakin, while he could kill Obi-Wan.

Dooku was holding back against Anakin, and also used on him dun möch, which made him angrier.

But against Obi-Wan, Dooku was not holding back his killing intent. Now that makes more sense, since Anakin was absolutely not superior to Obi-Wan by RotS, that is why Obi-Wan managed to beat Anakin.

Their skill and force feats are matches, and also Obi-Wan was more experienced and knows the use sokan. Which makes Obi-Wan a little better than Anakin.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not sure. Anakin seems to have tanked quite a bit of TK off Dooku during their TCW fights.

When did he do that ? I don't remember any.

Perhaps Anakin's natural power allows him to tank TK better than Obi-Wan can.
[/B]

Force powers doesn't work like that I believe, that doesn't give Anakin any advantage here ;

And also Dooku defeated Anakin via force here ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aqeEjv1_eOc#t=99

Dooku used force choke right after Anakin's force wave, it doesn't saved Anakin at all.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nope. Just because Kenobi managed to kick Skywalker off him, whilst Dooku resorted to a more lethal Force attack (one which Kenobi is not capable of) does not mean Dooku wasn't capable of also landing a kick.

In fact just look at that GIF of yours properly. Look at Kenobi's face expression how he's struggling badly with that choke. The look at Dooku's in "the same choke" and you will see Dooku clearly struggled less, and after taking a kick no less. Whilst Kenobi was brought to his knees by that choke. Dooku wasn't he was already floored via a kick. (And don't get me into the number of times Dooku's kicked Anakin, Kenobi and Ventress).

So if anything, that Proves Dooku is more durable than Obi-Wan. And has certainly showed a heck of a lot more strength in their confrontations.

Again your looking for any example anywhere trying to prove this ridiculous theory that Dooku is weak to physical attacks, when it's usually his opponents who are incapable of handling Physical attacks from him.

It's getting quite ridiculous now when you're saying things like "Hey look Dooku got hit that one time therefore he's weak to physical attacks!!!"

Anyway you can discuss this further in the Dooku vs Kinetic Energy thread I've made.

Do you know Dooku was 83 years old by RotS right ? How do you expect him to be physically good as Obi-Wan ?

You still didn't provide any force combat (without lightsaber) feat of Dooku, and you can't because he doesn't have. As I said multiple times, Dooku's kicks depends on fencing and finding an opening thats why all of his kicks happened in lightsaber combats, he is not kicking like Obi-Wan, Ventress, Anakin etc.

Now if you have any force combat feat of Dooku, such as Obi-Wan has this ;

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Karasakal/blz08_zpsaacc6217.jpg

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Karasakal/blz09_zpsfcaf2a63.jpg

Then we can talk about ''your theory'' which is Dooku doesn't have any weakness and physically stronger than Obi-Wan...

Originally posted by Marco1907

When did he do that ? I don't remember any.

Like all throughout this Vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvomH9iKQo8

No where is he flung the way Kenobi is, except for with the FL/TK Combo.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Force powers doesn't work like that I believe, that doesn't give Anakin any advantage here ;

That means their force push was equal, but that scene doesn't prove or disprove that Anakin is better capable of tanking greater TK Attacks than Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Marco1907
And also Dooku defeated Anakin via force here ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aqeEjv1_eOc#t=99

Dooku used force choke right after Anakin's force wave, it doesn't saved Anakin at all.

Lol, yeah after battering him with the help of Magnaguards. Even then it again took a combined TK + FL attacks to KO him. And Dooku even looked kind of exhausted after that.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Do you know Dooku was 83 years old by RotS right ? How do you expect him to be physically good as Obi-Wan ?

Through Force enhanced strength and durability.

Originally posted by Marco1907
You still didn't provide any force combat (without lightsaber) feat of Dooku, and you can't because he doesn't have.

LOL I don't need to because you've yet to prove Dooku is weak without his Lightsaber.

But the only thing I can think off the top of my head is how Dooku easily KO's a Pirate when escaping them with Obi-Wan and Anakin in "The Gungun General."

Originally posted by Marco1907
As I said multiple times, Dooku's kicks depends on fencing and finding an opening thats why all of his kicks happened in lightsaber combats, he is not kicking like Obi-Wan, Ventress, Anakin etc.

Holding a Lightsaber in one hand doesn't magically increase or decrease anyone's strength or durability.

Fact is Dooku smacked Kenobi's stomach and through him to the ground. Kenobi could hardly take that attack.

Fact is Dooku struggled far less with Anakin choking him than Kenobi did.

Fact is Dooku has kicked these guys much further and with much more deadly effect than vice versa.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Now if you have any force combat feat of Dooku, such as Obi-Wan has this ;

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Karasakal/blz08_zpsaacc6217.jpg

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Karasakal/blz09_zpsfcaf2a63.jpg

Then we can talk about ''your theory'' which is Dooku doesn't have any weakness and physically stronger than Obi-Wan...

Urmm... How about the fact that he battered physically Obi-Wan in their fight. Despite the fact that Obi-Wan had aid from Anakin making it harder for Dooku to land those blows.

Your argument is a fail I'm afraid.