Meetra Surik Vs Vitiate

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You mean the part where Sidious was shown to be bellow both Mace and Yoda in sabers, so resorted to the Force? Yeah. I remember that.

Wow, so your revelation in PT was that Sidious indeed sucks as a duelist? If not, what are you trying to prove here?

The absence of evidence is indeed is not the evidence of absence.

👆

But the fact is, plenty of "powerful people" in the sith culture have risen through the ranks while being well below the Exile in sabers. In a pure sabers fight, they would be stomped. I'm not going to assume Vitiate would be any different just because he's Vitiate.

Can you give any examples on these sith? People who are at least close to Vitiate level?

He has to prove himself just like everyone else, and the Exile has proved herself to be among the best in sabers. At least in KotOR II.

Which is why I think the Exile has the upper hand here. Still doesn't make sense to assume she would stomp the Emperor.

Originally posted by Sinious
Wow, so your revelation in PT was that Sidious indeed sucks as a duelist? If not, what are you trying to prove here?

Can you give any examples on these sith? People who are at least close to Vitiate level?

Which is why I think the Exile has the upper hand here. Still doesn't make sense to assume she would stomp the Emperor.

Again, why are you all assuming that Strength in the force is Lightsaber mastery? The Tor era were completely different to the PT era in principles, PT Jedi specialized in bladework so heavily because to use the force was to kill, when they were not facing Sith. Their bladework allowed them to disarm and best as many opponents as they needed to without Killing.

In the Cold war and previous Eras, we have seen that a lot of people who are very adept in the force chose to forsake Lightsaber dueling. Vitiate himself (IIRC) is described in the Revan novel as someone who wouldn't have practiced Sabers, relying on his force abilities to win.

A lot of Jedi Consulars and Sith inquisitors did the same thing, they learned Niman and some slightly more advanced techniques like Trakata in an effort to make Lightsabers a far less substantial part of dueling.

Darth Vowran is a prime example of this.

Vowrawn doesn't impress me at all power wise. He seems to get where he is through alliances, knowledge, and cunning, rather than martial might and overwhelming strength in the force.

Originally posted by Selenial
Again, why are you all assuming that Strength in the force is Lightsaber mastery?

"As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation." - Kas'im.

It's not a question of lightsaber mastery, it's a question of overwhelming power. Like above, Bane was beating Kas'im because he was just more powerful than him.

I have no idea about sabers, but Vitiate stomps in the Force and all-out.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Force Enlightenment is more gameplay mechanic than the saber forms you were just denouncing. As for the other Light Side techniques, Revan actually does have access to them, as he has complete mastery of both sides of the Force. It may not make sense, but he has shown that feat.

Revan Reborn is more powerful than KotOR Revan. Her being on par with KotOR Revan doesn't make her more powerful than Revan at his peak.

Force Enlightenment does not only appear as a game mechanic in KotOR II actually. It is mentioned in Revan in regards to the Exile(somewhat) and appears in the KotOR CG, she was an Enlightened Jedi which reflects the fact that she became a Force Ghost.

Force Enlightenment is just the in-game term to describe a Jedi who has reached Enlightenment, reflected in it's other appearances and descriptions.

You also ignore her innate talent to use Sever Force which despite popular assumption, she can use because Vima Sunrider taught her to control it.

Her ability to use Moving Meditation in combat, also appears somewhat in the novel. It is a logical assumption considering the time she analyses and engages the mercs in less than a second. Also later manages to simultaneously duel amped IGs without a scratch and have the spare time to command T3-M4.

I could go on a personal rant about how the 'game mechanics' of their canon alignment path, reflect in their genuinely canon appearances.

Simply put, I definitely believe that Revan and the Exile were on similar footing. Karpyshyn just ignored every other character in his personal quest to wank Revan and Vitiate simultaneously.

Does Reborn Revan later surpass her? yes he does, because she dies and he gains a three century power curve. Not surprising.

Also the whole 'Revan mastered both sides of the Force' thing, hyperbolic statements ftw? There is no quote at all that states such. Do I think his unique life gained him a similarly unique connection to the Force? yes, Do I see any reason to believe he mastered both sides? not at all.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not what I said in the slightest. The point is being the most powerful won't guarantee you are relatively close to other masters in lightsaber skills. Besides, Sidious has proven himself over and over again. I don't have to assume he's a master.

And I've never said its a guarantee. My entire point is based on not claiming anything.

Lulz. You know I can't do that.

Of course you can't. 🙂 Thats because there isnt an example of what you're depicting in SW mythos.

I think you're taking the phrase "____ stomps," a little to seriously at this point. I'm not going to speak for dmb, but from what I've seen, that means they have much better showings and skill. And while I'd like to believe Vitiate is a competent swordsmen, the Exile has better feats. The closest I've seen Vitiate ever come to a pure saber duel with anyone competent was with Kira, and he lost that one.

Fair enough, but still any claims such as "Vitiate would get stomped" are pure assumptions until any further information is released.

Originally posted by AncientPower
[B]Force Enlightenment does not only appear as a game mechanic in KotOR II actually. It is mentioned in Revan in regards to the Exile(somewhat) and appears in the KotOR CG, she was an Enlightened Jedi which reflects the fact that she became a Force Ghost.

Force Enlightenment is just the in-game term to describe a Jedi who has reached Enlightenment, reflected in it's other appearances and descriptions.

You also ignore her innate talent to use Sever Force which despite popular assumption, she can use because Vima Sunrider taught her to control it.

*snip*

Simply put, I definitely believe that Revan and the Exile were on similar footing. Karpyshyn just ignored every other character in his personal quest to wank Revan and Vitiate simultaneously.
Does Reborn Revan later surpass her? yes he does, because she dies and he gains a three century power curve. Not surprising.

Also the whole 'Revan mastered both sides of the Force' thing, hyperbolic statements ftw? There is no quote at all that states such. Do I think his unique life gained him a similarly unique connection to the Force? yes, Do I see any reason to believe he mastered both sides? not at all.

@Sinious: TOR alone is full of examples of people who are like that Baras, Thanaton, Angral, etc. . None of them are on Vitiate's level, true, but all of them were decent swordsmen who's Force abilities far eclipsed them.

As to the rest, I'll agree to disagree. I think in a forum setting, it's safe to make that assumption.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice

@Sinious: TOR alone is full of examples of people who are like that Baras, Thanaton, Angral, etc. . None of them are on Vitiate's level, true, but all of them were decent swordsmen who's Force abilities far eclipsed them.

As to the rest, I'll agree to disagree. I think in a forum setting, it's safe to make that assumption.

All of these names are decent duelers. TOR era indeed has categorized the sith in this sense but like you said, these are all force usage based characters who also know how to use a lightsaber. Vitiate is far above them and thinking that he would be different instead of better doesn't make sense to me. Meetra has proven here self as a duelist which matters most, I still don't agree with the word "stomp" here.

Yes lets agree to disagree.

Except for the fact that by being Enlightened she thus gains the statement: "The end result was an "enlightened" Jedi, having unlocked and harnessed fully the light side of the Force."

Essentially she was a master of the Light Side of the Force, which makes perfect sense after soloing a Sith Order responsible for one of the most complete purges of the Jedi Order ever.

I also believe that Meetra's ghost didn't just provide the energy Revan needed to wage a subtle war of wills, but also amped him with her own power.

Though we are going into the realm of theory crafting.

Meetra is just a more powerful Light Side user IMO than Revan is.

Stating a nexus-nerf Meetra is less powerful than a Dark Side user on a nexus in which she has had a century to prepare on is a highly circumstantial statement at best.

But back to the main topic, Vitiate without prep vs Meetra with prep is highly dangerous to him as well prepped Moving Meditation may provide a speed blitz, as she has displayed before.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Except for the fact that by being Enlightened she thus gains the statement: "The end result was an "enlightened" Jedi, having unlocked and harnessed fully the light side of the Force."

Essentially she was a master of the Light Side of the Force, which makes perfect sense after soloing a Sith Order responsible for one of the most complete purges of the Jedi Order ever.

I also believe that Meetra's ghost didn't just provide the energy Revan needed to wage a subtle war of wills, but also amped him with her own power.

Though we are going into the realm of theory crafting.

Meetra is just a more powerful Light Side user IMO than Revan is.

Stating a nexus-nerf Meetra is less powerful than a Dark Side user on a nexus in which she has had a century to prepare on is a highly circumstantial statement at best.

But back to the main topic, Vitiate without prep vs Meetra with prep is highly dangerous to him as well prepped Moving Meditation may provide a speed blitz, as she has displayed before.

Nice to see Freshest sticking up for Revan. 👆
Though you won't really get anywhere besides wasted time with Ancient.

Sticking up for Revan? so because I don't believe he is Yoda level despite Yoda being the second most powerful Jedi of all time I am denouncing him? you fanboys are hilarious.

Your Meetra wank is amateur and requires further practice. You pick and choose what parts of a novel is canon and not based off of gameplay from a 2004 video-game.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm not sure where you see me denying this. KotOR Revan is a master of the Light Side and I said the Exile was on par with him. 😬

No. Whenever Revan was running low, so to speak, she restored him.
"As the Emperor fed off him, Meetra was allowing Revan to feed off her. Her sustenance strengthened his resolve whenever he grew weak, refreshing and restoring him so he could continue his never-ending mental war."

Sure.

It's not really. Scourge is a Dark Siderish(Revan's influence maybe hampering this) on a Dark Sider nexus and they fought together, and Scourge is undoubtedly powerful according to Revan. Nyriss is just a bamf at Lightning.

In all out? Lolno. If the HoT is not blitzing a weakened Vitiate, there's no way a fully powered one will be blitzed by Surik, when the HoT literally had a saber pointed at his face an inch or two away. This is without prep, by the way. Scourge says the Emperor is unaware of their presence.

No statement provides the evidence that Revan is a light side master, nor a dark side master, unless of course you have something I've missed.

An ability that is as situ as Oneness moments is not evidence enough for me to suggest that Revan has mastered both sides of the Force.

There is however a whole bunch of evidence that supports Meetra Surik being a master of the Light Side.

Skipping to the end point, I don't believe HoT>Meetra or HoT>Revan for that matter. He or she is an exceptional lightsaber master, probably superior to them both. More powerful in the Force? I doubt that.

What the **** are you smoking? Everything you said there is wrong. Everything.
An entire village in Ethiopia just burned down there only computer after processing your argument above.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your Meetra wank is amateur and requires further practice. You pick and choose what parts of a novel is canon and not based off of gameplay from a 2004 video-game.

Actually there is no 'wank' and I find it funny that you of all people denounce me when you have repeatedly ignored evidence yourself in countless debates.

Get back to me when Revan stops being your personal deity.

Meetra Surik is powerful and not a red shirt, the canon is blatantly obvious in this regard, sorry that I don't worship the poster-boy like you do.

You put Kun on tier with Vitiate. Yeah, forgive me when not taking you serious in a "debate."
Meetra Surik is implied to be on the level of Lord Scourge (Revan novel). Yes, power. Extremely powerful? Not at all.

You of all people saying that is pretty funny.