Originally posted by Galan007
lmao, this is idiocy at its finest. bio entries NEVER take precedence over on-panel feats--if they did, galactus' power would be equal to LT's(they're both 'teh level 7!!!', after all)... but obviously this is NOT the case, as on-panel feats paint an entirely different picture of their powersets.however, bios CAN be used to help solidify established on panel fact. this is important because in runner's last appearance, he was shown as decisively sub-c. fast-forward to his 2010 bio, and they have his speed capped at c as well(coincidence? doubtful)... but if you want to ignore canon material, in favor of making childish comments, then go right ahead. either way, flash/zoom are far beyond runner in terms of [speed] feats--so runner's 'speed cap' is a moot point regardless. 🙂
i also can't help but lol @ the glaring double standard here. you're so incredibly quick to mention any low showing from flash or zoom you can think of, but when i mention one of runner's low showings(and cement it with a bio), you get laughably defensive. heh, w/e...
Childish comments!?
You are the one that brought PIS into a non PIS thread CRY BABY!
You brought a scan that caps the top speed in the Marvel Universe as "c" (when "c" has been broken over and over and over and over again in Marvel) into this thread; it might be canon, but it was also a PIS plot device designed to make Runner lose...
Not only that, but you have the audacity to introduce "evidence" into this thread as pertains the Runners abilities, but only want to one facet of it to count! LoL!! What are weak debater you are...
You cant have it bought ways, either your card is BS or it isnt; either Runner moves at sub c (despite the fact that he has a feat of combat speed that exceeds a character that routinely moves faster than c) but is completely invulnerable to what the speedforce family can dish out OR you concede that your evidence is complete BS...pick your poison.
You played the PIS card 1st, because you knew deep down that Runner crushes these two, but your fanboyism wont allow you to admit it openly...
Runner has these combat feats:
1) Crushing Surfer (arguably the top High Herald)...
2) Crushing Collector (a bonafide Trans Tier character)...
3) A loss to Thanos only via a plot device (the Space Gem)...
Flash family has been beaten by far, far, less sans plot devices; they pale compared to the might of the Power Primordial...
Runner crushes your beloved speedforce users...read em and weep...CRY BABY!!
💃
Well this thread went downhill lol.
LoM, you say it's PIS, but you gotta understand, the showing of Runner going under C holds FAR more weight than Wally's low showings, because of the number of appearances he's had.
If Wally has appeared 100 times, and has 10 low showings, that's 10%.
If Runner has appeared 3 times, but had 1 low showing, that's 33% of his showings being low. So you can't ignore it as much as you can Wally. That's all.
@DarkSaint
Its a pretty simple argument I make; either the incident was PIS or its not...
Do you agree that the speed limit in Marvel exceeds "c"?
If you agree, then you also agree that that was a limited time only PIS plot device put in place to make Runner lose...
How many times was c surpassed before that writing? How many times was c exceeded after that writing?
You know the answer to this; you know exactly what that writing was...
PIS...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@DarkSaintIts a pretty simple argument I make; either the incident was PIS or its not...
Do you agree that the speed limit in Marvel exceeds "c"?
If you agree, then you also agree that that was a limited time only PIS plot device put in place to make Runner lose...
How many times was c surpassed before that writing? How many times was c exceeded after that writing?
You know the answer to this; you know exactly what that writing was...
PIS...
How many times was c surpassed before that writing by Runner? How many times was c exceeded after that writingb by Runner?
Those are the important questions.
That race in Quasar is the only time that he was written that way. While your point about statistical weight is has some validity, I chose to toss it out as an outlier on the basis that if he could not surpass light speed, none of his other stories would even be possible. In his very first appearance he talks about traversing light-years and then whisks Moondragon off to explore the galaxy.
Basically, either the c limit was an authorial misstep, or every other story about the character ceases to make sense. The former leads to far more inconsistencies than the latter, and the race story is semi humorous to boot.
Originally posted by Laminator_X
That race in Quasar is the only time that he was written that way. While your point about statistical weight is has some validity, I chose to toss it out as an outlier on the basis that if he could not surpass light speed, none of his other stories would even be possible. In his very first appearance he talks about traversing light-years and then whisks Moondragon off to explore the galaxy.
Basically, either the c limit was an authorial misstep, or every other story about the character ceases to make sense. The former leads to far more inconsistencies than the latter, and the race story is semi humorous to boot.
How many stories has he appeared in?
Not many: the Moondragon corruption story in New Defenders, the Elders conspiracy in Silver Surfer vol III, the race story in Quasar, and Anihilation.
The race is the only one where lightspeed as a limit is mentioned, and frankly only seems to be there to fit Crisis-surviving-not-Barry into the story.
Not that it's material to the issue at hand anyway. No amount of superspeed tricks are going to drop a guy who can stand there with a silly grin on his face while the Silver Surfer unloads on him or nonchalantly walk around on the surface of a star like it's a stroll through the park.
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Not many: the Moondragon corruption story in New Defenders, the Elders conspiracy in Silver Surfer vol III, the race story in Quasar, and Anihilation.The race is the only one where lightspeed as a limit is mentioned, and frankly only seems to be there to fit Crisis-surviving-not-Barry into the story.
Not that it's material to the issue at hand anyway. No amount of superspeed tricks are going to drop a guy who can stand there with a silly grin on his face while the Silver Surfer unloads on him or nonchalantly walk around on the surface of a star like it's a stroll through the park.
And in the other three stories, is there a mention of what his true speed limit is?
So not one of those implied things, where he has traveled beyond the stars in the beating of a heart or poetic writing like that.
Because it is sounding like people are inferring a speed limit (beyond multiples of light speed) when a speed limit has already been given, and then discarding 25% of his showings because they don't like it.
If DCnU Superman, as an example had 25% of his showings capping him at struggling to lift a car, people would be cackling with delight.
And no speed tricks will drop him?
Do they really need to state an explicit velocity when traversing interstellar distances? I mean yeah, Moonie 1st-person narrates their travels in poetic language rather than specifying a velocity figure, but really, nobody quotes the speedometer reading when waxing nostalgic for the Summer spent road tripping with an ex. There's no question that they're on-panel traversing multiple star systems in the span of the time they were a couple. Same deal with catching the Surfer in flight. Neither of them stop to remark on their exact velocity, but it's an interstellar journey that is taking some time in the hours-days range, judging by the surrounding events in the story.
Even the Marathon story in Quasar has them traversing interstellar distances, despite the lightspeed verbiage. It's not even consistent within the book itself. I don't have a problem with that in the context of a story that has a Tortise and Hare as part of the race and the victor's medal handed out by the Road-Runner. It's a goofy fun story and a great love-letter to Barry, but attempting to extrapolate hard-data from it in is an exorcise in foolishness.
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Do they really need to state an explicit velocity when traversing interstellar distances? I mean yeah, Moonie 1st-person narrates their travels in poetic language rather than specifying a velocity figure, but really, nobody quotes the speedometer reading when waxing nostalgic for the Summer spent road tripping with an ex. There's no question that they're on-panel traversing multiple star systems in the span of the time they were a couple. Same deal with catching the Surfer in flight. Neither of them stop to remark on their exact velocity, but it's an interstellar journey that is taking some time in the hours-days range, judging by the surrounding events in the story.Even the Marathon story in Quasar has them traversing interstellar distances, despite the lightspeed verbiage. It's not even consistent within the book itself. I don't have a problem with that in the context of a story that has a Tortise and Hare as part of the race and the victor's medal handed out by the Road-Runner. It's a goofy fun story and a great love-letter to Barry, but attempting to extrapolate hard-data from it in is an exorcise in foolishness.
True.
Which is where we then have the handbooks, as posted by Galan. On its own, sure, the handbooks aren't to be trusted. But we have on panel, canon, proof (unless it was not canon?) where it's explicitly said to be below light speed.
