Runner/Silver Surfer vs Zoom/Flash

Started by JBL8 pages

Originally posted by Board Walker
Flash has a feat where he evacuated a large city in china in less than a fraction of a second. The math was done for it since the
page provided the number of people he moved, the distance per person, and how long it took in total.

The result was that flash was moving at speeds far beyond multiplications of light speed, in fact its the fastest objective (non subjective) speed feat in comics i know.

Not trying to be a smart azz, but flash was moving just shy of the speed of light. No one can add or subtract from the on-panel speed that was given.

Originally posted by Galan007
read the OP, guys:

I've read it and I believe they still get destroyed...

Going by your own "evidence" Runners durability is maxed out (a 7 indicates completely invulnerable...doesnt it?); his durability and strength is even greater than his speed (which is BS; those cards are garbage, but whatever)...

They wont be able to harm him (looks like your card supports him having Thanos level durability at the bare minimum...eh?), will eventually fall to his aura since they are lacking in TP resistance feats, and he has planetary level matter manip...

Yeah, Runner crushes them...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I've read it and I believe they still get destroyed...

Going by your own "evidence" Runners durability is maxed out (a 7 indicates completely invulnerable...doesnt it?); his durability and strength is even greater than his speed (which is BS; those cards are garbage, but whatever)...

They wont be able to harm him (looks like your card supports him having Thanos level durability at the bare minimum...eh?), will eventually fall to his aura since they are lacking in TP resistance feats, and he has planetary level matter manip...

Yeah, Runner crushes them...

Runner wouldn't have time to use those feats.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Runner wouldn't have time to use those feats.

Hes invulnerable to whatever they do to him...

He'll get them eventually...

Are the Surfer and Runner powerful enough to blow up the planet?

They win

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I've read it and I believe they still get destroyed...

Going by your own "evidence" Runners durability is maxed out (a 7 indicates completely invulnerable...doesnt it?); his durability and strength is even greater than his speed (which is BS; those cards are garbage, but whatever)...

They wont be able to harm him (looks like your card supports him having Thanos level durability at the bare minimum...eh?), will eventually fall to his aura since they are lacking in TP resistance feats, and he has planetary level matter manip...

Yeah, Runner crushes them...


ROFL! 👆

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Hes invulnerable to whatever they do to him...

He'll get them eventually...

almost every high herald is invulnerable. We go by feats. Runner has no feats showing durability even beyond Thanos.

And you don't know what the IMP is capable of. Flash can hit runner with a universe of power if he wanted to. Or just steal their speed from the beginning. How would runner even win if his speed is stolen?

Originally posted by tkitna
Are the Surfer and Runner powerful enough to blow up the planet?

They win

Wally can run on air/space. Not a big deal. 😎

Originally posted by Golgo13
Wally can run on air/space. Not a big deal. 😎

If nothing else, the kid can run 😄

While faster in a tactical sense (Runner travels FTL through space) I don't think that anybody on Team 2 can dish out sufficient punishment to put the Runner down. He hits harder and takes hits better than the Flash family, by far. Look st the end of his fight with the Surfer. He didn't win via his speed. He just shrugged off SS's hits like they were nothing and then overpowered him.

Originally posted by Galan007

-flash CAN run without a physical plane beneath his feet.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Wally can run on air/space. Not a big deal. 😎

He can?

😮

He can do anything/everything

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He can?

😮

Yup, he has done so several times. Ran in space, ran on air, etc. He doesn't need a physical plane to run.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
While faster in a tactical sense (Runner travels FTL through space) I don't think that anybody on Team 2 can dish out sufficient punishment to put the Runner down. He hits harder and takes hits better than the Flash family, by far. Look st the end of his fight with the Surfer. He didn't win via his speed. He just shrugged off SS's hits like they were nothing and then overpowered him.
Runner is not more durable than Superman can effect with physical blows. Both Zoom and Flash can hit HARDER than Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
Runner is not more durable than Superman can effect with physical blows.

What are you basing that on? I don't recall ever seeing the Runner act like he even felt a blow from anybody.

Alright, time to address some points here. Stand back, people, and prepare to have your minds blown.

Firstly,

Originally posted by Galan007
you do realize that absolutely everything myself and DS have said regarding flash/zoom has been confirmed with on-panel evidence, right? nothing i/we have mentioned is conjecture.

for example:
-flash CAN react by the attosecond.
-flash CAN calculate infinite scenarios in order to find any possible weakness in his opponent, instantly.
-flash CAN run without a physical plane beneath his feet.
-flash CAN IMP/one-shot heralds.
-a zoom-blitz CAN harm heralds as well.
-zoom's speed DOES make flash's look utterly pathetic in comparison.
etc. etc. etc.

...but yeah, i guess 'fanboyism' is the best way to refer to fact-based arguments these days. /shrug

This is true. Galan, Golgo and I (and anyone else, really) have never talked about dropping multiverses or whatever on people's heads, at least, not seriously. We have provided scans to back up our statements, although, in my case, they aren't mine (if I have seen far, it is only because I have stood on the shoulders of giants etcetc). So stop whining.

Secondly:

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I argue that that was a PIS moment as we know Surfer moves FTL, but Runner outperformed him against Thanos as pertains speed.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Didnt Power Girl punk Zoom?

Lol...

Surfer solos if we are going there...

How many appearances has Runner had??? I accept that Wally will have more high feats, AND more low feats (in terms of quantity, we can debate quality), simply because he has had way more appearances than Runner. If Runner has had THREE appearances, and ONE of them is under light speed....that holds FAR more weight than Wally's low showings. And you should take an average or something, IF you guys want to bring up low showings, which I can see you guys are already doing with Deathstroke and PG.

Thirdly:

Originally posted by Inhuman
In that "Gruenwald" Quasar run, Nothing went over light speed. There was some retarded physics/laws and such that he implemented.

Also road runner appearing in that story = credibility dropped.

also...

🙂


Good scan. A beastly feat for Wally.

Where many people (yourself included) have made the mistake, is not reading the full sentence properly. HE CARRIED them there at a hair breadth's short of the speed of light.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
A third reading, is that he was both faster and slower than the speed of light.

We know the Flash carried the Koreans at 'a hair breadth's short of the speed of light'.

But when he's running BACK into the city, empty handed, without anyone in his arms and when's he's not having to worry about civilians..he's running faster.

So, rather than assuming a constant speed (the speed that he carried them there = the speed he runs back into the city), he probably took a bit more care+time when he was carrying a little old Korean lady, than ramping it up to max gear when he's on his own.

Also:

He's making two trips, of 35 miles each (assuming the city is concentrated in 1 spot - this is grossly underestimating, as Chongjin is 104 square miles;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongjin). This would be for every rescue.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Good scan. A beastly feat for Wally.

Where many people (yourself included) have made the mistake, is not reading the full sentence properly. HE CARRIED them there at a hair breadth's short of the speed of light.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
A third reading, is that he was both faster and slower than the speed of light.

We know the Flash carried the Koreans at 'a hair breadth's short of the speed of light'.

But when he's running BACK into the city, empty handed, without anyone in his arms and when's he's not having to worry about civilians..he's running faster.

So, rather than assuming a constant speed (the speed that he carried them there = the speed he runs back into the city), he probably took a bit more care+time when he was carrying a little old Korean lady, than ramping it up to max gear when he's on his own.

Also:

He's making two trips, of 35 miles each (assuming the city is concentrated in 1 spot - this is grossly underestimating, as Chongjin is 104 square miles;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongjin). This would be for every rescue.

good speculation.

Another way to look at it is that the writer isn't a mathematician. He may have fuqed up on the numbers, but he still made it clear what speed flash was intended to go at in that scan.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Another way to look at it is that the writer isn't a mathematician. He may have fuqed up on the numbers, but he still made it clear what speed flash was intended to go at in that scan.

True.

But writer intent is not meant to be used. Otherwise Abhi dredges up some long lost interview by some Superman writer where Superman is apparently TOAA in Marvel or something.

So my interpretation, whilst it does NOT have to be the one everyone believes, takes into account BOTH the numbers and the statement.

After all:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Writer clearly says they were carried there.

Says nothing about Flash when he's running empty handed - unless you want to argue he was also carrying them INTO the city?

Writer also clearly states the time taken for the whole operation, and the distance travelled.

He carried them UNDER the speed of light - but to be able to carry out the entire rescue operation in the time CLEARLY stated, he was travelling MUCH faster.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True.

But writer intent is not meant to be used. Otherwise Abhi dredges up some long lost interview by some Superman writer where Superman is apparently TOAA in Marvel or something.

So my interpretation, whilst it does NOT have to be the one everyone believes, takes into account BOTH the numbers and the statement.

After all:

well i think my theory is more plausible than the writer intending flash to go a trillion times the speed of light or whatever.
But its not really a theory because its right there in plain English what he meant.

Originally posted by Inhuman
well i think my theory is more plausible than the writer intending flash to go a trillion times the speed of light or whatever.
But its not really a theory because its right there in plain English what he meant.

It is, indeed.

They were CARRIED there at a hair breadth's short of the speed of light. It's all one sentence, you can't just focus on half a sentence and proclaim you're right.

Plain, clear as day.

Also plain, clear as day, is the population, the distance they were carried, and the time taken for the entire operation to take place.

My explanation takes both statements into account, and is supported by on panel narration and the actual feat itself.