Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
No, there aren't 1 billion Space Marines either. Where do you keep getting these numbers from?It exists in the toilet? What? Anyway, can you give me the number of Dark Eldar backed by at least something resembling an official source?
What's a 'rank one character'?
Toile the net not toilet...
Originally posted by Revanchiste
I mean, not the warp I mean an alternative rality connected to the warp...
Since he also can see all "future" alternates realities, and re-arrange theme...
There are no alternative realities connected to the Warp that I know of. I believe that Tzeentch can see different outcomes, but he still has to manipulate and scheme in order to change things. He cannot just will them to happen. This ability will be of little use to Tzeentch when all outcomes are 'getting eaten by Galactus for breakfast'.
Problem chaos have this kind of breakfast....
And within the warp chaos gods rules... If someone survive the warp that's because tzeentch decide it.... Tzeetch is 1-C within the warp.
He can destroy any weaker characters including rank 2 character with ease.
And her that's just by thinking !!!!!
1-C: Complex Multiverse level:
These are 6-11-dimensional characters. Even 6-dimensional characters can logically easily destroy an infinite number of simple multiversal spacetime continuums (this is roughly the equivalent of the previous "Megaverse" term), and 7-dimensional characters exceed that scale an infinite number of times, and so onwards. However, these characters do not exceed the 11-dimensional scale of the complete totality of a full multiverse, as defined by M-Theory.
The highest part of this category is an infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity number of times greater than the bottom.
Tzeentch maze is in 9D if I remember and he live in a dimension hum well 0D
Galactus have survived the 1D or I rather say 0.5D with only time.. Err I mean .. Time wasn't really well defined....
Originally posted by Revanchiste
Problem chaos have this kind of breakfast....And within the warp chaos gods rules... If someone survive the warp that's because tzeentch decide it.... Tzeetch is 1-C within the warp.
He can destroy any weaker characters including rank 2 character with ease.
And her that's just by thinking !!!!!1-C: Complex Multiverse level:
These are 6-11-dimensional characters. Even 6-dimensional characters can logically easily destroy an infinite number of simple multiversal spacetime continuums (this is roughly the equivalent of the previous "Megaverse" term), and 7-dimensional characters exceed that scale an infinite number of times, and so onwards. However, these characters do not exceed the 11-dimensional scale of the complete totality of a full multiverse, as defined by M-Theory.
The highest part of this category is an infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity x infinity number of times greater than the bottom.
Tzeentch maze is in 9D if I remember and he live in a dimension hum well 0D
Galactus have survived the 1D or I rather say 0.5D with only time.. Err I mean .. Time wasn't really well defined....
Again, you're making this claim of Tzeentch being essentially omnipotent without showing any feats of that.
I'm sorry, but basing somebody's power on how many dimensions they can see/be in is absolutely ridiculous. Where did you even get this power ranking system from, anyway? I just can't take it seriously.
EDIT: M-theory? It's a real life physics theory. Applying it to determine the powers of fictional characters is absurd. Especially to characters that explicitly break the laws of physics on a whim.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Again, you're making this claim of Tzeentch being essentially omnipotent without showing any feats of that.I'm sorry, but basing somebody's power on how many dimensions they can see/be in is absolutely ridiculous. Where did you even get this power ranking system from, anyway? I just can't take it seriously.
EDIT: M-theory? It's a real life physics theory. Applying it to determine the powers of fictional characters is absurd. Especially to characters that explicitly break the laws of physics on a whim.
It's all ridiculous and absurd. But you underestimate just how much he doesn't care about that. He really wants 40k to win.
I take the party of the most disavantaged faction... Always.
(Except if the stomp is really really really clear)
So yhea That's for no under estimatetion.
+Tzeentch always realize the impossible. It is an another reason even more valuable than the other one.. Like Guts slaining deamon 100 000 more power than himself with no ruse.. He just go bersek XD Or master chief pure luck... And other X factors
He is omnipotent in the warp. And is able to influence people thinking outside the warp... Scheming is just the safest way to realize his plan.
+ You answer me nothing for the god of death....
+ All 1 or 0 rank character in marvel universe are neutrals....
+ Chaos good are totaly immortal (in theory if we follow the legend that tail that one day an eldar corrupt god of death will born and kill slaanesh...) Because they ever existed since live have been created in the warhammer 40 000 multiverse.... In the warhammer universe the warp of the "toile" was safe with no chaos godds, Khorn was the first chaos to appears, but chaos godds have ever existed....
So my deduction... Chaos goods are nt only in the warp, the warhammer 40 000 chaos gods within the warp only reflect warhammer 40 000 universe....
there is other dimension with the warp where chaos gods exist or not with
a different face and attributes.....
It's like.. Well when you cumul heat + air + a combustible you make fire appear...
When you cumulate blood flow + war + hate and anger of blood, you make appear an avatar of khorn within the warp.. Well Khorn is an avatr of that mysterious god.... Avatar that posses himself an other "mortal" avatar...
There is other godds living in a 0 dimension behind the warp where chaos gods aren't defin very well, but at least they are connected to the warp... But there is an exception Tzeentch.....
"Shut up Revanshite"
Make me. I'm talking to you Robtarb !
The problem Artificial glory is that you are only reliying on galactus galactus himself is not powerfull enough... To do so.. That's the problem;... I know he is kinda in the O.P.. But he is not enough powerful to take down chaos by himself....
+ If he dare eat the warp (if he have th power because warp is a dimension beyond multiversal + we don't know if he really can) he could get corrupted...Possessed.... If I was galactus I won't suck some demonic stuff with really powerful mindraping abilities, lies, lust, desires, bloods etc...
And chaos godds could automaticaly reborn intantly .. Summoned by the cultists of each goods....
Chaos gods love their jobs Khorne love "berserking" nurgle have an humhum kof wierd sens of humor, slaanesh is completly driven by his own fun. And tzeentch take some minor risk to make his sheme more tragic or poetic (cuz he can biatch) or play with his foes make them dance, but he always do that knowing the issue.... It explain some weakness in Tzeench plan but in the end the plan never fail....
We are not only relying on Galactus. He's one of literally legions of Godlike beings and actual Gods. All of whom can pretty much do everything your guys can and many can do even more.
Hell let's forget Galactus for a moment. What can any of the 40k guys do against multiversal reality warpers like Mad Jim Jaspers and Jamie Braddock? Or guys like the Celestial Host or Abraxas? Jack diddly shit is what they can do.
Also, it's really hard to understand what you're writing.
Originally posted by Revanchiste
So yhea That's for no under estimatetion.
+Tzeentch always realize the impossible. It is an another reason even more valuable than the other one.. Like Guts slaining deamon 100 000 more power than himself with no ruse.. He just go bersek XD Or master chief pure luck... And other X factors
He is omnipotent in the warp. And is able to influence people thinking outside the warp... Scheming is just the safest way to realize his plan.+ You answer me nothing for the god of death....
+ All 1 or 0 rank character in marvel universe are neutrals....
+ Chaos good are totaly immortal (in theory if we follow the legend that tail that one day an eldar corrupt god of death will born and kill slaanesh...) Because they ever existed since live have been created in the warhammer 40 000 multiverse.... In the warhammer universe the warp of the "toile" was safe with no chaos godds, Khorn was the first chaos to appears, but chaos godds have ever existed....
So my deduction... Chaos goods are nt only in the warp, the warhammer 40 000 chaos gods within the warp only reflect warhammer 40 000 universe....
there is other dimension with the warp where chaos gods exist or not with
a different face and attributes.....
It's like.. Well when you cumul heat + air + a combustible you make fire appear...
When you cumulate blood flow + war + hate and anger of blood, you make appear an avatar of khorn within the warp.. Well Khorn is an avatr of that mysterious god.... Avatar that posses himself an other "mortal" avatar...There is other godds living in a 0 dimension behind the warp where chaos gods aren't defin very well, but at least they are connected to the warp... But there is an exception Tzeentch.....
"Shut up Revanshite"
Make me. I'm talking to you Robtarb !The problem Artificial glory is that you are only reliying on galactus galactus himself is not powerfull enough... To do so.. That's the problem;... I know he is kinda in the O.P.. But he is not enough powerful to take down chaos by himself....
+ If he dare eat the warp (if he have th power because warp is a dimension beyond multiversal + we don't know if he really can) he could get corrupted...Possessed.... If I was galactus I won't suck some demonic stuff with really powerful mindraping abilities, lies, lust, desires, bloods etc...
And chaos godds could automaticaly reborn intantly .. Summoned by the cultists of each goods....Chaos gods love their jobs Khorne love "berserking" nurgle have an humhum kof wierd sens of humor, slaanesh is completly driven by his own fun. And tzeentch take some minor risk to make his sheme more tragic or poetic (cuz he can biatch) or play with his foes make them dance, but he always do that knowing the issue.... It explain some weakness in Tzeench plan but in the end the plan never fail....
+So when has Tzeentch ever "realized the impossible"? Is it because his home is called "The Impossible Fortress"? That's just a name. Yea, I think what you're talking about is called PIS.
How is Tzeentch omnipotent in the Warp when he doesn't even control the entire Warp? And why would an omnipotent being feel the need to be 'safe'?
+Who's the god of death? You mean one of the C'tan? You know, Marvel actually has a cosmic being named Death.
+What difference does it make whether they're neutral or not?
+Immortal as long as they get nourishment from sentient beings, yes. But immortal does not mean invincible or indestructible. Deprive the Chaos Gods from their nourishment and they will eventually perish. For the last time, the Chaos Gods are not as old as life or the universe. Hell, when the Old Ones and the Necrontyr fought their war millions of years ago, the Warp was a calm, neutral place: no daemons, no Chaos Gods, no corruption, etc.
I don't really get what you're trying to say here. There's only one Warp and Tzeentch is not fundamentally different from the other Chaos Gods.
I'm not relying on Galactus only(though he alone could destroy everybody in WH40K quite easily), I'm just using him as a primary example.
+ First of all, we have no proof that the Warp is multiversal, but even if it was, Chaos is in control of only a tiny fraction of the Warp. Galactus has consumed demonic crap before(Mephisto's hellish realm) and he was just fine. The Warp would be nothing to him as he can convert virtually any type of energy into what he needs and no one in the Warp is powerful enough to even scratch or corrupt Galactus. If the daemons couldn't corrupt or mindrape the Emperor of Mankind, why would they be able to do it to a being that is many orders of magnitude more powerful than the Emperor? And why would the Chaos Gods be reborn instantly? It took them thousands, if not millions, of years to form in the first place. Except that there would be no cultists left because Galactus just destroyed the Milky Way galaxy(or the entire universe) along with everyone in it.
How do we know that Tzeentch's plans never fail? Do you have a source on that?
I have top say.. It is an evidence there is chaos god that exist behind teh warp.. They are shapless.... And they "born" (begin to manifest themself) in the warp if emotion begin to flow. They reflect the world...
It is describe that chaos don't know the concept of space and time and ad that chaos godds ever existed so I assume that the author of this text is talking about chaos godds beyond the warp. If I follow this theory they live in a palce where space and time doesn't exist.
They are shapless except one : Tzeentch... In the warp of warhammer 40 000 universe. There is only one god that posses no true form Tzeentch (Yhea irony of teh story...) his manifestation within the warp always change... But that's just an avatr like Khorn is an avatar within the warp for a certain chaos gods that live in a place connected to a complexe metaverse.....
And who else live a place where time and space don't exist.. Well.... : tzeentch !!!! Of course tzeench.. And have you think about the possibility that the forteress of the impossible is connected to multiple version of the warp?
If chaos gods can exist elsewhere in different shapes an forms... While sharing similar traits and aspect.... without sharing same "memories"
Why not for tzeentch being the same, with teh same memories....
That's why he is the strongest... I know the concept is quite "ineffable" but explain in the warhammer 40 000 universe.
+Tzeench plan never fail and tzeench is able to realize the impossible.... That's mean Tzeench against an army of being more powerfull than him can still win.. Even if odds are at 0% chance of wining..... Tzeentch canrealize the impossible som that's mean Tzeetch always posses a chance to win...
Tzeentch like many chaos godds is able to absorb and eat other gods and godlike beings... And have even face the emperor of Mankind who within the wwarp can basicly rape chuck norris himself... Actualy The emepror within the warp .. Well there is actually no limit establish to his power.....
And tzeetch not only resist him but defeat him... So yhea... Don't **** with Tzeentch...
The emperor of Mankind
He even summon massif legions of gods like being just by thinking 0.0000...0001s and they where trillions of mighty warships man etc... Or mayby higer ships... Within the warp the power of the god emperor of mankind have no limits....
Tzeentch offer a totaly unfair X factor : Instant victory.. Not because he is O.P and able of mass destruction... But he is just omnipotent in pure power he is just 1-C within the warp... But in reality with his sheming capacity he just reach the 0 ranking.... He can just basicly accomplish anything by just sheming...
Like guts, is cappble of killing any demons just by going berserk...
That's a rule if his goal is victory he just have to write a plan !!!! And it will work...
Ynnead God of death and paradoxin gestation within the wwarp he will born corrupted to the deepest of his sould and kill slaanesh but when I mean kill.. I mean not only within the warp.... And kill him for eternity...
It's an eldar god the last hope for the eldar race !!! (Even if it is written that he will born when the last eldar will die....) So as long eldar lives marvel characters don't risk anything because the power of this god is just.... No word........ It equal Tzeencth sheming capacity.... He just can basicly destroy any character that have ever been imagined.... So power that it could create big mother ****ing time paradox... He can even kill himself.. Well if he do that that will **** up an entire metaverse....
Read Eldrad Ulthran prophécy for more details....
That's not the first time I'm talking about this god....
Chaos god have ever lived an existed they existed outside warhammer 40 000 universe...
That's higly suggestted...
It is higly suggested that they are shapless entity that live in the "néant" (it's a particalare way to mean nothingness néant mean the absolute nothingness)
Only one godds with a shape to this place and have adopted a form... : Tzeentch.
+ It is given to tzeentch the title of the impossible maker...
Quote :
" One can go mad, and many have, trying to study even the smallest threads of the Great Schemer and to perform the impossible: to describe him and to fix him to one shape, one form, one motive, one truth."
Only one person have describe Tzeentch : Himself.
I cannot find a clear quote.. But Tzeentch is higly associate with the possibility to realize the impossible...
Originally posted by Revanchiste
I have top say.. It is an evidence there is chaos god that exist behind teh warp.. They are shapless.... And they "born" (begin to manifest themself) in the warp if emotion begin to flow. They reflect the world...
It is describe that chaos don't know the concept of space and time and ad that chaos godds ever existed so I assume that the author of this text is talking about chaos godds beyond the warp. If I follow this theory they live in a palce where space and time doesn't exist.They are shapless except one : Tzeentch... In the warp of warhammer 40 000 universe. There is only one god that posses no true form Tzeentch (Yhea irony of teh story...) his manifestation within the warp always change... But that's just an avatr like Khorn is an avatar within the warp for a certain chaos gods that live in a place connected to a complexe metaverse.....
And who else live a place where time and space don't exist.. Well.... : tzeentch !!!! Of course tzeench.. And have you think about the possibility that the forteress of the impossible is connected to multiple version of the warp?If chaos gods can exist elsewhere in different shapes an forms... While sharing similar traits and aspect.... without sharing same "memories"
Why not for tzeentch being the same, with teh same memories....
That's why he is the strongest... I know the concept is quite "ineffable" but explain in the warhammer 40 000 universe.+Tzeench plan never fail and tzeench is able to realize the impossible.... That's mean Tzeench against an army of being more powerfull than him can still win.. Even if odds are at 0% chance of wining..... Tzeentch canrealize the impossible som that's mean Tzeetch always posses a chance to win...
Tzeentch like many chaos godds is able to absorb and eat other gods and godlike beings... And have even face the emperor of Mankind who within the wwarp can basicly rape chuck norris himself... Actualy The emepror within the warp .. Well there is actually no limit establish to his power.....
And tzeetch not only resist him but defeat him... So yhea... Don't **** with Tzeentch...The emperor of Mankind
He even summon massif legions of gods like being just by thinking 0.0000...0001s and they where trillions of mighty warships man etc... Or mayby higer ships... Within the warp the power of the god emperor of mankind have no limits....Tzeentch offer a totaly unfair X factor : Instant victory.. Not because he is O.P and able of mass destruction... But he is just omnipotent in pure power he is just 1-C within the warp... But in reality with his sheming capacity he just reach the 0 ranking.... He can just basicly accomplish anything by just sheming...
Like guts, is cappble of killing any demons just by going berserk...
That's a rule if his goal is victory he just have to write a plan !!!! And it will work...
No, the Chaos Gods exist in the Warp. What is this other dimension you're talking about? Are you just making things up now?
Actually, the Chaos Gods do have shapes, including Tzeentch. His form changes more, but that's a superficial characteristic. Again, the Chaos Gods live in some place outside the Warp? You better back this up with some sources or I'll be forced to conclude that you're pulling stuff out of your ass again.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that the Chaos Gods have doppelgangers?
+ Tzeentch's plans are not infallible. Nurgle, who's not exactly a bright fellow, foils his plans constantly.
Do you mean the Eldar "gods"? The problem is that the Eldar gods and the Emperor are weaklings compared to beings like Galactus. Tzeentch had to ally with the other 3 Gods and use Horus to beat the Emperor, and even then the Emperor is still alive and fighting(in a fashion). Again, you keep saying "in the Warp this, in the Warp that", but the truth is that the Warp does not and cannot magically make a non-omnipotent being omnipotent by the virtue of that being entering the Warp. The Emperor was, and never will be, omnipotent outside or inside the Warp.
The Emperor can summon legions of gods just by thinking? You're going to have to provide a source for that. The Emperor did not just think those ships into existence, they had to be built by actual people. And there were never trillions of them. Once more, the Emperor does not have limitless power. If he had, he wouldn't be a mummified corpse on a glorified life-support system.
Yea, and Galactus is 0-1. Nope, Tzeentch is still not omnipotent nor does his scheming make him omnipotent. If he could accomplish anything, Tzeentch would be the undisputed ruler of all reality. As things stand currently, he's obviously not.
Who is Guts and why is he relevant to this discussion?
Right, the plan will work unless Nurgle foils it, or the Emperor does, or some random space marine, or maybe the Inquisition...