Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Mandalorian Wars Revan is already deemed the most powerful warrior the jedi order has to offer, and Meetra states that Revan has a greater command of the force than anyone else she'd ever met,
These statements hold a great deal of weight and imply Revan's power and mastery, however, none of these statements have any connection to Dooku whatsoever. Dooku has similar statements regarding his power and mastery as a jedi before becoming a sith. He was noted as being one of the most powerful and knowledgeable jedi in the orders 25,000 year history, which is a pretty outstanding statement especially considering that Yoda considered him one of the orders greatest loses due to his force knowledge and mastery. Unlike Revan's statements, Dooku's quotes do have somewhat of a connection to Revan's era. This doesn't prove that Dooku is more powerful than Revan, but, IMO, they hold more weight than the quotes and hype surrounding Revan, considering Revan was well known and perhaps acknowledged when these statements regarding Dooku were made.
The fact that Dooku, even has a jedi, has much hype surrounding his name, imply just how powerful he was as a sith, considering that he acknowledged himself as being a far more powerful sith lord. And who knows Dooku better than himself?
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This would include Darth Traya, who actually has feats rather comparable to Dooku when it comes to the force, such as dominating a trio of jedi high council members with TK, one-shotting them with force drain, demolishing Darth Sion via force choke, choking out a High Council Member (Zez Kai Ell), and one-shotting a group of sith assassins. She's also healed Hanharr from near death, telepathically contact others from a galaxy's distance, read minds, etc. Even in her much weaker area, aka martial combat, she casually outpaces Brianna unarmed, then chokes her out an proceeds to annihilate the others with force crush and general telekinetic dominance. Yes, Revan as of the Mandalorian Wars has a greater command of the force than this badass old lady, according to Meetra.
Dooku practically dominates just about every force user that he faces with the force alone, with some of them being regarded as some of the most powerful of their era. In regards to TK, Ventress, who nearly killed a powerful jedi by gripping her heart, is absolutely no match for Dooku in that area. Despite Ventress' considerable TK feats, she usually ends up being ragdolled by Dooku. Even with the help of two nightsisters, both of whom were considered by Talzin as being the greatest warriors of her clan, were absolutely no match for a drugged and blind Dooku. His battle precognition and senses (which may have been dampened as well, considering that the drug used on him was made for that purpose as well) was so sufficient that he was besting all three of them in a saber duel, and ended the fight by frying them with lightning and tossing them a great distance out of his window. Not to mention his casual handling of both Bulq and Tholme; the former, he blasted unconscious with a single short blast of lightning with just one hand, and the latter, he berried in rubble by easily collapsing the ceiling on him. Then there's his casual handling of Vos with the force, and of course Kenobi. The thing with Dooku's opponents, though, is that most of them have impressive feats, which make Dooku's casual handling of them that much more impressive. Dooku's also one-shotted groups of warriors, such as the kiffar warriors and Zabrak warriors (which are force sensitive warriors).
I don't consider Traya as impressive, TBH.
As for drain, Dooku has never utilized it, but he is most certainly knowledgeable of it, and even knows of a defense against the dark reaper, which was designed to drain entire armies of the force. Dooku has also healed himself of deadly poison.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Then we get on to the fact that Revan after regaining his mask and lost memories is declared by the omniscient narrator to be "far more powerful" than his old Mandalorian Wars incarnation. this, by extension, puts his command of the force far beyond that of even Darth Traya, who was an ultimately dominating force user. My personal opinion on the matter? I don't actually believe that Revan is far more powerful than Traya, persay, but even being her solid superior, which is what is implied, puts him notably above the Count. On to the actual point at hand...
I don't consider her feats to be quite on par with Dooku's, considering that he's dominated force users who are regarded as some of the most powerful warriors of their time, on top of having notable feats to back it up.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Of course absorption requires mastery to effectively use, but raw power is its basis. It's even stated that it was his "raw power in the force" that sent Nyriss's lightning back into her face.
That really doesn't prove Revan is more powerful than Dooku any more than Dooku's superior TK feats (most of which would require tremendous raw power, and yet is done so casually by him) proves that he's more powerful than Revan. Plus Dooku has easily batted aside his own redirected lightning, which was intense enough to cause a decent size explosion.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm not one who tends to lowball Dooku's lightning, but instant incineration is beyond Dooku's output.
With lightning? No, but Dooku has instantly knocked Bulq unconscious with a very short blast of lightning. Regardless, Revan's absorption feat has no bearing on how a fight would go down between him and Dooku, considering Dooku can block and handle his own lightning, and it absolutely has no bearing on how well Revan would defend against Sidious' TK. All Revan's absorption feat proves is that he has tremendous raw power. But how exactly do you compare the raw power required to absorb lightning capable of incinerating others to the raw power required to collapse caves, rip apart and drop objects larger than a starship, or lift a dozen of obelisks (each weighing multi-tons)? You can't. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Energy based attacks such as lightning contain extreme heat, which is why it's more lethal, whereas TK does not. TK is more force and impact than anything.
My point is, there are some force users who haven't mastered the ability of absorption that are more powerful than force users who have. As far as raw power is concerned, Anakin as of ROTS has already tapped into reserves of the force that put him above Dooku in raw power. It's Dooku's mastery, refinement, and his ability to harness and direct his realized power that usually gives him the slight advantage over Anakin.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And yet Revan easily deflected such power. While tutaminis and TK are two different powers, they both have direct involvement in raw power
They are very hard to compare as explained above. As I said, every single TK feat from Dooku was done very casually by him, yet the force required to perform such feats require a great deal of raw power. In other words we've never seen Dooku fully unleash himself in terms of force based attacks, and yet he has some of the greatest force combat showing in the mythos. His feats with the force would apply more in a vs forum than Revan's absorption ability unless they are in a contest to see who can defend against more potent energy. In a fight between the two of them, Revan's absorption feat would be, for the most part, irrelevant, other than not getting harmed by Dooku's lightning.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Something I will agree on is that the context of the meteor feat is hazy, (did he TK them back and then start throwing down meteors? Was he fighting them and throwing down meteors simultaneously? How easily did he perform the feat?) It's still a scripted feat, and he is actually shown to lift multiple asteroids at once, which is something that has been commonly contested. not to mention the speed at which they were hurled. I personally have no doubt that Revan could replicate Dooku's TK feats, hype and feats in conjunction.
While I'm not suggesting that Ventress is a Revan level force user, but she has comparable TK feats to his meteor feat such as ripping large chunks from a cave, which were large enough to crush giant warriors, and yet Ventress is fodder for Dooku when it comes to TK, so I'm not really seeing how the meteor shower feat suggests Revan is on Dooku's level in regards to TK. I could just as easily claim that with effort, Dooku can replicate Revan's absorption feat based on the fact that he easily batted aside his own lightning (which, as I said, was intense enough to cause a good size explosion), or because of Dooku's hype, which happens to hold more weight than Revan's, considering it applies to more eras than Revan's hype.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'd be inclined to agree that Sidious could defeat Revan somewhat easily, but I personally don't see him utterly ragdolling Revan. I'd probably put Sidious above Vitiate in TK though, yeah.
Based on feats, ROTS Sidious is solidly above Vitiate in TK. Right now I'm working on gathering feats of the force users that Sidious did overpower with TK to show his superiority over Vitiate in that area, which will in turn help my argument regarding Yoda vs Vitiate, considering Yoda is not far behind Sidious in TK.