Don't type Neph can't respond to arguments unless you use your own thoughts as opposed to feats.
Especially when he makes intelligent posts like this that he will never back up with anything but his own opinion
roll eyes (sarcastic)AT ANY RATE, Dooku isn't superior to Bane to any significant extent that would allow him to overpower Zannah in any way.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But that allows his opponents to get in close and get around his blade with superior speed, positioning etc. Zannah's defensive wall wouldn't let Dooku *watches Obi-Wan fights*..... engage in a saberlock, kick her, catch her off-guard with the Force or really allow any of Dooku's standard attacks to be effective.
So while I agree Zannah won't be taken out by any kicks, it's not like she isn't vulnerable. Her sorcery also takes away from her defense so it's not as if she can do both at the same time. Either way, Dooku should be able to resist them, unless for some reason you doubt his will. Finally, while she's preparing this, she can't pay attention to anything else, which Dooku can use to his advantage. All in all, I'm not seeing the impregnable defense you're seeing. From his lightsaber, sure, but Dooku has more at his disposal.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Bane was on her in an instant, his lightsaber slashing viciously, his heavy
boots kicking and stomping at her prone body. Zannah thrashed and
twisted on the ground, her lightsaber flailing desperately to parry Bane's
blade. She felt a sharp crack as the toe of his boot caught her in the ribs,
but she rolled with the impact and managed to end up back on her feet.So while I agree Zannah won't be taken out by any kicks, it's not like she isn't vulnerable.
That happened after she'd tripped. 😬
Like I said, Dooku doesn't have a way to replicate those circumstances.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Her sorcery also takes away from her defense so it's not as if she can do both at the same time.
She can just jump away like she did against Bane. If a duelist as aggressive as Bane couldn't prevent a wounded Zannah from using sorcery, Dooku won't.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Either way, Dooku should be able to resist them, unless for some reason you doubt his will.
Dooku has no showings indicating he can resist her attack. And he lacks the pain resistance Bane has, that let him resist the attack despite it making his head feel like it was being cut apart by a million burning knives.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Finally, while she's preparing this, she can't pay attention to anything else, which Dooku can use to his advantage.
Lol, nah. This is never said to be the case.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
All in all, I'm not seeing the impregnable defense you're seeing. From his lightsaber, sure, but Dooku has more at his disposal.
None of which will effect Zannah.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm going with Zannah. Dooku hasn't shown enough willpower or mental fortitude to suggest he could resist them.
Ane Zannah has shown nothing that indicates she does t get ragdolled, she needs time to prep he illusions as shown by when she got pounded by Sarro and Bane. Also Dooku has no fears or anything Zannah to work off of , i,e the burden of proof is on you to suggest how they'd affect him when they've only worked on fodder and Bane only when he relented on his assault
Originally posted by Nephthys
That happened after she'd tripped. 😬Like I said, Dooku doesn't have a way to replicate those circumstances.
She can just jump away like she did against Bane. If a duelist as aggressive as Bane couldn't prevent a wounded Zannah from using sorcery, Dooku won't.
Dooku has no showings indicating he can resist her attack. And he lacks the pain resistance Bane has, that let him resist the attack despite it making his head feel like it was being cut apart by a million burning knives.
Lol, nah. This is never said to be the case.
None of which will effect Zannah.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She tripped because she couldn't pay attention. Her using Illusions means she can't focus on anything but that and Dooku. I don't see why Dooku couldn't use that to his advantage. She was barely holding Bane before that.
Wrong. She could pay attention, Bane just tricked her. And I don;t see how Dooku could use that to his advantage. Unlike Bane, he can't make her retreat. So he can't really utilise the environment to his benefit.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's because Bane let up on his attack instead of dodging, more stupidity on Bane's part than skill on Zannah's.
No, its because Zannah counter-attacked to prevent him from pursuing her. Bane anticipated that and didn't. He was wary enough of her even wounded not to push his advantage.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except pain resistance has nothing to do with resisting Sith sorcery. The strength of the opponent's will does.
And try summoning the will to resist while writhing in agony. He sure didn't look like he was capable of resisting when he was screaming like a ***** from Talzin's attack.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why do you think she tripped in the first place? She was too focused on Bane's attacks and her illusions.
Maybe, but you're seriously exaggerating by saying she can't pay attention to anything else. Bane just tricked her into thinking he was herding her towards the shuttle, only to change directions and force her back over the graves.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because?
I already said, his TK and lightning aren't powerful enough to be a threat to her.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrong. She could pay attention, Bane just tricked her. And I don;t see how Dooku could use that to his advantage. Unlike Bane, he can't make her retreat. So he can't really utilise the environment to his benefit.
No, its because Zannah counter-attacked to prevent him from pursuing her. Bane anticipated that and didn't. He was wary enough of her even wounded not to push his advantage.
And try summoning the will to resist while writhing in agony. He sure didn't look like he was capable of resisting when he was screaming like a ***** from Talzin's attack.
Maybe, but you're seriously exaggerating by saying she can't pay attention to anything else. Bane just tricked her into thinking he was herding her towards the shuttle, only to change directions and force her back over the graves.
I already said, his TK and lightning aren't powerful enough to be a threat to her.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It says she didn't notice because of her defence against Bane and her using her illusions. Yes Bane caused her to change directions, that really doesn't change the point. I don't see how Dooku isn't comparable to Bane in sabers to do the same.
Dooku doesn't have a random, unpredictable style where he changes his angle of attack constantly or whatever. In fact, Makashi is very fencing based. With a focus on simple movement back and forth along a clear line of attack and defense. Zannah didn't notice the graves because Bane made her reposition herself while retreating. Dooku won't make her retreat so whatever.
And Bane is superior to Dooku as a duelist.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Bane anticipated she was going to attack and stopped, however, Zannah stabbed forward "like a spear," something Dooku has been shown to dodge from superior duelists.
Good for him. I don't care. If Bane didn't feel comfortable with pursuing, Dooku shouldn't. Bane is much more aggressive and Zannah was wounded. Yet he didn't pursue her. Dooku isn't going to press the attack on a healthy Zannah with his calm, elegant style.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Talzin's magic > Zannah's illusions. The only thing I see comparable is her Tendrils, and she needed a nexus to use those. It's not a fair comparison.
Its not a question of whose magic is superior. Dooku has shown that he's susceptible to pain. Which Zannah mental attack causes a lot of.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Considering the lack of environmental, sure, but it still leaves Zannah open because she has to split her energy between gathering. She has to focus on Dooku and her Illusions; I don't see how she'll anticipates Dooku's TK.
Well she has precognition. 😐
And she has... eyes. She might not see a grave behind her, but that doesn't mean she can't see Dooku raise a hand to use TK.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I already get why his Lightning won't be a threat, as Zannah sho's no problem with Banes. But as far as his TK and speed are concerned, I'm still not convinced. Especially considering the point above.
Theres no reason Dooku should press her with TK. And with speed, Bane has superior or equal speed to Dooku, yet Zannah caught his attacks "easily".
No. But in the interest of not starting up the Bane speed argument again, why don't we just agree they're equal.
Sure.
Zannah's defensive wall[...]
Again with the whole wall thing. You do know that's not the entirety of Zannah's lightsaber technique, right? If it were, she'd basically be shit.
Wouldn't let Dooku engage in a saberlock,
Why not?
catch her off-guard with the Force
Why not?
or really allow any of Dooku's standard attacks to be effective. You can't get around it with footwork or positioning
I seem to recall Bane took up such a strategy in their fight, and it seemed effective enough. 😬
Why not what? Why not do that? Because he can't push her back.
Why do you infer that Bane's method is the only option? It seems to me that Dooku's approach would work rather well here.
And Zannah isn't clumsy.
Accept it, bro. 😈
At any rate, Dooku isn't superior to Bane to any significant extent that would allow him to overpower Zannah in any way.
Sounds good.
Talzin is overrated imo.
Agreed. She's still a better Sorceress than Zannah, though.
Dooku doesn't have a random, unpredictable style where he changes his angle of attack constantly or whatever. In fact, Makashi is very fencing based. With a focus on simple movement back and forth along a clear line of attack and defense. Zannah didn't notice the graves because Bane made her reposition herself while retreating. Dooku won't make her retreat so whatever.And Bane is superior to Dooku as a duelist.
Dooku doesn't need Bane's attack style to beat her. Bane's "Attack" style wasn't even enough to gain him a victory over his apprentice, whereas, the Count has defeated opponents that are more skilled than either Bane or Zannah. Zannah's tripping over the grave is a result of her own stupidity and lack of tactical awareness, i,e the same thing that nearly cost her the duel (she would've died) had there not be a nexus handy. Also he doesn't need to "make her retreat" he can just dominate her with TK.
Good for him. I don't care. If Bane didn't feel comfortable with pursuing, Dooku shouldn't. Bane is much more aggressive and Zannah was wounded. Yet he didn't pursue her. Dooku isn't going to press the attack on a healthy Zannah with his calm, elegant style.
Why do you keep scripting the fight? How is Dooku's attacking style relevant to how Bane achieved it? Zannah can't generate offense against Dooku so the ball is squarely in his court on how he goes about it, and when he does go on the offense he sent Ventress flying, ragdolled Kenobi, and sent Bulq flying with FL. Dooku has gone on the offense and the other duelist lost, Zannah has struggled with Sarro and Bane. Dooku is more skilled than either of them
Its not a question of whose magic is superior. Dooku has shown that he's susceptible to pain. Which Zannah mental attack causes a lot of.
Not relevant to the fact that there is no evidence Zannah's illusions/spells will work on him 👆
she has precognition. no expressionAnd she has... eyes. She might not see a grave behind her, but that doesn't mean she can't see Dooku raise a hand to use TK.
Yeah her precognition that was so great it allowed Sarro to pound her, allowed her to trip over a grave, have her ribs broken, and failed in helping her prevent Bane from attempting essence transfer on her.
Theres no reason Dooku should press her with TK. And with speed, Bane has superior or equal speed to Dooku, yet Zannah caught his attacks "easily".
Prove all of that.
That happened after she'd tripped. ermLike I said, Dooku doesn't have a way to replicate those circumstances.
Why is it relevant if this is a fight that takes place on neutral ground? Zannah has no way to gather darkside power for her tendrils, and Dooku is faster and his TK can press Zannah (as it has to Ventress, Vos, Kenobi) to where she can't gather power.
She can just jump away like she did against Bane. If a duelist as aggressive as Bane couldn't prevent a wounded Zannah from using sorcery, Dooku won't.
Like she jumped away from Bane after he blasted her with a force scream, was sent flying by a TK wave, after she was knocked back by a kick. Dooku is just as aggressive as Bane, he just doesn't need to focus on power attacks as he can easily just take out Zannah with TK.
Dooku has no showings indicating he can resist her attack. And he lacks the pain resistance Bane has, that let him resist the attack despite it making his head feel like it was being cut apart by a million burning knives.
Zannah has no showings indicating she can summon her illusions/spells at will while being pressed and or hit with TK. Dooku is faster than Zannah and attacks from all angles as opposed to Bane who is predictably nothing but power attacks.
None of which will effect Zannah.
Her defense isn't even close to impregnable, she allowed a kick to send her back from Bane who is much slower than Bane. Dooku has sent Ventress and Kenobi flying and can easily do the same to Zannah
Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku doesn't have a random, unpredictable style where he changes his angle of attack constantly or whatever. In fact, Makashi is very fencing based. With a focus on simple movement back and forth along a clear line of attack and defense. Zannah didn't notice the graves because Bane made her reposition herself while retreating. Dooku won't make her retreat so whatever.
And Bane is superior to Dooku as a duelist.
Good for him. I don't care. If Bane didn't feel comfortable with pursuing, Dooku shouldn't. Bane is much more aggressive and Zannah was wounded. Yet he didn't pursue her. Dooku isn't going to press the attack on a healthy Zannah with his calm, elegant style.
Its not a question of whose magic is superior. Dooku has shown that he's susceptible to pain. Which Zannah mental attack causes a lot of.
Well she has precognition. 😐
And she has... eyes. She might not see a grave behind her, but that doesn't mean she can't see Dooku raise a hand to use TK.
Theres no reason Dooku should press her with TK. And with speed, Bane has superior or equal speed to Dooku, yet Zannah caught his attacks "easily"
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sure.
Cool.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Again with the whole wall thing. You do know that's not the entirety of Zannah's lightsaber technique, right? If it were, she'd basically be shit.
I'm aware, but it is the main component of her style.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why not?
Her style involves deflecting the opponents lightsaber with her spinning. Theres no opportunity to engage in a saberlock.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why not?
Unlike Obi-Wan, Zannah has good force defenses. 😛
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I seem to recall Bane took up such a strategy in their fight, and it seemed effective enough. 😬
As I said, Makashi is built around creating a line and advancing and retreating along that line with minimal movement, according to the Jedi Path. He's not going to be running around Zannah like Bane was and doing so would just tire him out quicker.
And that's not what I meant about footwork and positioning. Makashi is built around unbalancing an opponent, positioning yourself for maximum effectiveness and attacking at their weakest point. That's not the same as circling around and rapidly changing the direction you're attacking from.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why do you infer that Bane's method is the only option? It seems to me that Dooku's approach would work rather well here.
In what way? He lacks strength, unpredictability or much of anything that could push her back. And theres no specific terrain here for him to use.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sounds good.
Thanks for not pushing that.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Agreed. She's still a better Sorceress than Zannah, though.
Nah. Zannah has one of the most vast collections of Sith Sorcery ever at her fingertips, despite how Krapyshan tried to write it as much mental attacks, and massive amounts of Force power.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why not? You don't need a random, unpredictable style to pressure Zannah. She seemed to have enough trouble keeping up with Bane's speed and strength during their duel, and while I accept that Bane is stronger than Dooku, at least in style,
Not really. She only had some problems with his strength when he did heavy 2-handed strikes, but was still able to recover fast with no loss of advantage. And she had no issues at all with his speed even before she starts up her main defense.
I feel like you wanted to say more though, lol. But you've given me no reason to think she'd have issues with his offense.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Is very debatable. Dooku has kept up with Anakin and Obi-Wan and called them among the best saberist he's ever met, as did Windu, and whether you think they perform well or not, they are the go to duo of the Order for a reason.
And Bane's speed and strength is insane and he's vastly underrated as a technical duelist. He's faster and stronger than Dooku and is more powerful than him. And power plays a big role in lightsaber duels.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
By your own words, they don't fight in the same style. Zannah wasn't pressed because she was wounded, she was wounded because she was pressed. Fighting the way Dooku does, he would have no problem taking advantage of the situation. You caring or not has no impact on this.
No, she wasn't pressed. Just because she was retreating doesn't mean she was being overpowered or anything. Theres nothing in the text that supports the idea that Bane was beating her at that point.
What situation, Zannah putting space between them? Dooku has never had an issue with letting this occur or aggressively pursued an opponent. If Zannah jumps away, Dooku isn't going to rush after her right into a counter-attack. He's smarter and calmer than that.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Everyone's susceptible to pain. But using the argument that because Talzin is able to cause Dooku pain, so should Zannah is unsound simply because of Talzin's place in herself. She's much more powerful and thus would not be a good baseline to judge where Dooku's pain threshold is. Regardless, it's doubtful that Dooku would even let Zannah get to this point. He wouldn't need to stop attacking, and Zannah would not have her opening.
I'm not making the argument that because Talzin caused him pain Zannah will. I'm saying that her attack causes extreme pain, and Dooku has proven that when hit by painful attacks he does nothing more than writhe around on the floor. Its not something to do with power. Both attacks are unquestionably very painful and I see no reason why Dooku will react differently to Zannah's attack than he did to Talzin's.
Lol, Dooku isn't good enough press Zannah so hard that she can't get away.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She could hardly anticipate Bane's movements.
Blatantly untrue. 😬
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How would she have enough to prepare for Dooku's TK while constantly defending herself? This is assuming that Zannah can even defend against it, whereas in the case of Bane she clearly couldn't.
Well she wouldn't be defending herself from his lightsaber if he's attacking her with the Force, would she? She'd just defend against the Force. And lolwut? She very much could defend herself against Bane. Do you have any idea what you're talking about here?
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Zannah was pressed the entire duel is one of the better suited styles to prop her defense. Regardless, I'm not seeing the reason Zannah shouldn't be pressed by Dooku with the Force, when Bane was able to even when she held the advantage in their earlier confrontation.
No she wasn't and no Bane didn't. You've clearly no even read the damn fight, lmao.