Hulk & Superman vs. Blue Marvel & Captain Atom

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't means the same thing. If you can stop a being from even touching at will, then you're a step above the said being in speed. Not in the same ballpark.

What Justice League showed that is Flash was faster than Superman. Not that Superman had to outsmart Flash, he just predicted where Flash would be and tagged him with his own superspeed. No need to outsmart anybody and if Flash was so much faster, he should've dodged the finger flick too. He didn't.

The fact that I have discuss them in human relative shows that superman is in the ballpark but flash is still faster.

And superman did use his supersede to hit flash. If he didn't then he would have missed. He outsmarted flash by predicting where he was going to be and by catching flash unaware and in a position he could hit flash. That is called out smarting your opponent abhi.

I honestly think you just want superman be to be as fast as the flash which is not the case based on that scene.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I take it as you are calling my statements 'assumptions' and yours be implication are 'facts', you have scans of this? That it made him faster?

Because otherwise....you're just assuming.

I will post the scans soon.

Originally posted by Newjak
there are professional fighters you could make you miss every time. They are faster then you but they are still humans and the error you still have a chance to hit them.

The fact that I have discuss them in human relative shows that superman is in the ballpark but flash is still faster.

And superman did use his supersede to hit flash. If he didn't then he would have missed. He outsmarted flash by predicting where he was going to be and by catching flash unaware and in a position he could hit flash. That is called out smarting your opponent abhi.

I honestly think you just want superman be to be as fast as the flash which is not the case based on that scene.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, I'm calling your stance here "assuming".

I will post the scans soon.

Oh, they're not already posted?

I was referring to the scans of him and Superman together. Not later, when he hits his peak.

I'm talking specifically about the scans where Superman is having a conversation with him. At which point in those scans does it say Flash is amped in his speed?

Because...it doesn't say in those scans that he's faster. And I say you're 'assuming' he's faster because of the poison.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What the? I said Flash was clearly faster than Superman there. The difference is you think Flash can make himself untouchable to superman if he wants, the comics say otherwise.

Meanwhile. Blue Marvel is crying that no one takes him seriously.

I think he is more useful in this fight than Hulk. And I would probably take team 2 for the healthy majority.

But Hulk can beat Blue Marvel though.

Did I say he couldn't. I said Blue Marvel is more useful in this fight. Which he is. He has better superspeed and flight. Hulk is grounded and can't contribute much to the match unless the other team goes to him. And please carver don't try and convince me Hulks ability to jump counters flight. It is not a good substitute.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I don't think you skip information if the life of someone you love depends on it. Also, scientific books are sometimes unfogiving. At least in my studies I read the stuff I have too carefully, to understand it properly in order to pass the exams and not to screw up the projects. But then again, I prefer an A over an B.

Who cares how long it takes you to read.. many can read much faster than you and pages in seconds... Superman being vastly smarter than you as well would surely mean he could get the gist of what needs to be done without reading every single word of every single pages. Prove he did so and it's a solid feat.. if not.. it's pretty meh

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, they're not already posted?

I was referring to the scans of him and Superman together. Not later, when he hits his peak.

I'm talking specifically about the scans where Superman is having a conversation with him. At which point in those scans does it say Flash is amped in his speed?

Because...it doesn't say in those scans that he's faster. And I say you're 'assuming' he's faster because of the poison.

Meaning Flash had to run at top speed to burn the poison out.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g9kDidkM9To/T0ZR9bO_FoI/AAAAAAAAAEg/argn8tGkHII/s1600/DSC01320.JPG

"Push him over the edge."

And as you know Superman was right behind Flash all the time as he burned all the poison at top speed. For 24 hours straight.

Originally posted by Newjak
Did I say he couldn't. I said Blue Marvel is more useful in this fight. Which he is. He has better superspeed and flight. Hulk is grounded and can't contribute much to the match unless the other team goes to him. And please carver don't try and convince me Hulks ability to jump counters flight. It is not a good substitute.

😐 Better super speed?

Get what you're saying about flight but I also think you are underestimating his leaping abilities as well.

Destroys the plane while in the air.

Hits the ground and then jump back up cloud height to get the bomb out of Pym hand. Do i need to explain this showing?

What Blue Marvel speed fts puts him above Hulk?

Does anyone know the issue number when Batman was injected with the toxin?

Originally posted by carver9
🙁

But I made it simple for anyone with any type of comprehension skill to understand. In the same sentence I brought up Grey Hulk, I said "using your type of debating style".

Originally posted by carver9
Flash wasn't fighting back and as shown per the scans, wasn't even moving that fast. Look at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th panel...paper around them is shuffling around whereas in the scan I presented, time was at a halt. Flash wasn't moving close to the speed he showed with Captain Atom.

Nice medical book reading though. Still don't think it compares to someone that see time at a halt.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Who cares how long it takes you to read.. many can read much faster than you and pages in seconds... Superman being vastly smarter than you as well would surely mean he could get the gist of what needs to be done without reading every single word of every single pages. Prove he did so and it's a solid feat.. if not.. it's pretty meh

Originally posted by carver9
[B]Time doesn't mean a thing to someone like Captain Atom who sees the world in slow motion and was also able to keep up with Flash and converse with him who was moving so fast that time and bullets stopped.

Moving so fast bullets stop is not Superman level. Moving so fast he can converse with Flash. Okay..how fast was Flash going at the time?

Also, you say seeing things as if time is frozen is better then the medical book feat, what are you basing this off of? What, may I ask, is the minimum speed required to see time as frozen?

You should probably read up on these characters before debating...especially before calling them slow.

Umm...nope, does not compute. Asking why Captain Atom wins and asking about his speed is me calling him slow? Then you say I am the one who needs to read...?

I sure did say pre Nu Cap was not on Superman's level of speed, which is true. Though even that is not technically calling the guy slow.

Originally posted by h1a8
lol, you are going against writer's intentions with made up stuff, which is a form of trolling. The author made no attempt to show that it is was Superman's intelligence and ability to skip over words as the reason he read all of those books that fast.

Screw going against the writers intentions, he is going against what we were shown and told in the comic. So as far as I am concerned? You shouldn't debate it, because there is no debate here . You might as well debate whether or not the sun is going to rise tomorrow.

Is the feat silly? Sure, but then that is par for the course in comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha. So that type of debating style goes both ways. Hulk reacted to Gladiator which means he can react to someone slower like DCNU Superman. Glad we got that out of the way.

Where did it say he was weakened? Scan.

What pressure? What caused the planet's/universe to explode? Hyperion also tanked the destruction of two universe and Hulk made him bleed with a punch. Based off fts (YOU'RE DEBATING STYLE. Said that for reflash), Hulk should be able to blow anyone here up with a punch. Right?

You're passing Superman fts to Darkseid. Based off fts, who is Superior, Hulk or DCNU Darkseid?

What fts does High Father have? Is he stronger, faster, and more durable than Hulk (remember, we are using your debating style here)? If he is, provide scans proving it, then I will back my claim up with scans.

In a comic dear carver he will but in a forum battle Glads will trash Hulk.

He was taken out by the OE before this and was in DS machine that was about to make him a Parademon, read the goddamn comic.

Read the comic, again. It is stated that DS destroyed it. No because energy durability != blunt force durability, Thanos is the best example here.

No I am not. Based of feats Darkseid > Superman > Hulk.

His fight against Darkseid. Catch up with the comics, the New Gods are back btw.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver did NOT say that Fixit > Darkseid.

He was applying Prof's debating tactic.

Prof: By combat feats, Superman>Cap Atom. Who has Cap Atom beaten who was on Superman's level? As an example, Dr. Manhattan.

Carver: By that logic, Fixit's feats > Darkseid's feats.

THAT is what he said. Only, and only IF, we use Prof's logic (their speed/strength feats), then Superman>Cap, and therefore, Fixit>Darkseid.

So ok, Superman by feats > CA. And Darkseid beat Superman (a rookie though) which makes him > Superman.

Fixit has never defeated someone on Darkseids level or Supermans level, his asteroid feat, if Carver was referring to it was done with help and he was more like a bullet.

Darkseid beating the whole rookie JLA and Superman is the feat that puts him above Superman, who by feats is already above his "peers".

So for your information. My debating tactic. See the feats, see the fights, use common sense and apply it to what you know.

Carvers tactic, take Hulks best feats and blow them out of proportion, dismiss Supermans best feats and always stick to the lowes (lowballing), use the Carter Sense, and preptend you know it better. If that doesn't work, leave out context or ingore common sense. ^^

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

As for this thread,

Back when he was inexperienced. And even if destroyed, he can reform himself, without it taking a long time. So still not sure what Superman can do.

Was that 60 days a FTL feat? How far is a'far corner'? I already have Cap specifically saying he's FTL, and actually outracing the Big Bang....At best, Superman is =Cap, and at worst (which is what I'm leaning towards), Cap>Superman in speed. Even if they are equal in speed, Cap can reform at will IF Superman somehow manages to destroy him.

How well did his super advanced suit fare when General Lane came a'knockin'? Answer: it was shredded. Being highly advanced Kryp tech means nothing. Not to mention, I haven't seen any transmutation resistance feats from it yet.

First, isn't that what you're arguing with the Kryptonian suit? IT's highly advanced, therefore it will resist Cap A (despite no proof)?

Secondly, Firestorm is also a schizo idiot, with human level reaction times and a human mindset. Which is....nothing like Cap. So the example is moot. Plus, I haven't seen Firestorm cure cancer, or use telepathy, resurrect the dead, or teleport. Not to mention, when Megala had the same powers as Firestorm, and tried taking Cap on, he got wtfpwned.

BFR is still on, right?

So as a rookie he was burned by a Volcano, the HV could be enough to do the same to a more experienced CA then.

Superdoom, raced from on end of the Galaxy to the other withing moments, even if you say some days it would make this far more than ftl. According to Carter the speed didn't stack 😉. So i am leaning towards them being equals in that department, also because of the medical book feat.
If Superman succeedes in dispersing his atoms for long enough, this would be a forum win.

Also we see that Superman could freeze H'el timewarped atoms, in time, who knows what effect he could have on CA. I can see CA winning some, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he is above the HH tier, not yet anyway.

Sure, it still helps him as it did on Krypton under a Red sun, and since both are so damn fast, some minutes of power are enough.

There is also no proof that CA could suck the energy out of Supermans body, what is your point? That we both have a tactic that can't be proved because it was never tried?

What do you think about the CA vs FS fight then, that it was PIS? Don't forget not every Kryptonian is Superman, so not everyone with FS powers is FS, experience etc. still counts.

BFR is on, for both sides. If we want to go this route, Superman used the Phantom Zone projector in a fight, he will use it here 😛 .

Originally posted by Newjak
So ignoring the Cap vs Superman speed debate. I just wanted to make mention to Prof you are being extremely generous in your interpretations of the DCNu Flash and Superman exchange. Especially saying a holding back Superman was able to easily tag a balls to the walls Flash.

I think myself it is pretty clear that Flash was easily able to outmaneuver Superman as he was practically mocking him the entire time. Superman wised up that he couldn't outright catch Flash. So he managed to lure Flash in a position to catch him off guard. As in Flash easily dodged the fist but didn't factor in Superman being fast enough to flick his finger and catch the Flash by surprise.

To me that exchange means Superman can tag Flash if he outsmarts him but that he most likely on average isn't touching the Flash.

Which isn't a bad feat considering what DCNu Flash has already done. It is actually a really good feat for Superman.

I didn't say easily. Yes Flash was mocking him until superman had enough. He didn't lure him, he had no bait o.O he intercepted him and countered him by moving his fist exactly at flashs face who was unable to dodge it, instead of finishing a punch he flicked his finger, else he might have killed him. That is clear whan you see the scan. Superman knowing exactly where flash is, moving fast enough to hit the flash and instead of punching flicking the finger.

It wasn't outthinking it was reacting too tbh. See it this way, Superman was surprised by Flash speed and had to catch up, speed up, what he did, he became fast enough to tag him, everything indicates this, the movement etc.
AND this was rookie Superman.

As for this thread, which (d)evolved in my abscence 😛:

Speed: A, B, C (Supersonic), D, E, F.
Flash A+
Superman A
Captain Atom A
Blue Marvel ?
Hulk C

Hulks speed is irrelevant to this thread and his leaping is also a burden for this fight of chars able to fly.

@Batman Prime...

So again, what speed fts does Darkseid have that proves he could keep up with Superman in a forum match. If you say grabbing a rookie Superman, then that also means Hulk has the same type of speed since he crushed Gladiator. Don't be a hypocrite here. You understand exactly what I am saying but is clearly dodging it. So in a forum fight, would you give Superman a 10/10 against Darkseid due to speed?

Doesn't mean he was weakened. Nothing was shown of him being at a loss of strength.

Post the scan showing him destroying it then post how it was destroyed (the planet).

Your debating tactic sucks though. In one corner we have a character with far greater fts (Grey Hulk) and in the other corner, we have a ft less character that took on a bunch or rookies (per your admission). Per your admission as well, we base arguments off of fts. So why does the DC ft less character defeat the Marvel full of fts character. Things that make you go hhhhhmmmm.

Then you are being a hypocrite and isn't hiding it. We have Hulk tagging a speedster but you are brushing it off but we have Darkseid tagging a speedster, a hurt speedster per your admission and it's legit. Hypocrite.

So based off fts, Grey Hulk>>>>>>>>> Darkseid. That's strength and durability fts unless again you want to compare scans (using your debating style of course). Hell, Colossus have better lifting fts than Darkseid.