Could Palpatine be surpassed?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Freshest and Tempest get it. Why are you so lost? (lol)

Still trying to calculate the number of force users?

Are you still trying to save face from embarrassing yourself? Haven't we humiliated you enough for one night? 😂

Or you could learn what the word "sovereignty" means. The Force wouldn't just let Palpatine control it. It didn't just let Plagueis control it.

And for the millionth time, show me where it says Anakin was created as a direct result of Plagueis' machinations. And try to be a little more thorough than S66, otherwise you'll end up having to bet smarter people to fight your battles.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Are you still trying to save face from embarrassing yourself? Haven't we humiliated you enough for one night? 😂

Yea, I believe I stated that neither one of them controlled it themselves. For someone talking about "legos", you seem to have trouble with reading comprehension. S66's stupidity rubbing off on you?

And for the millionth time, show me where it says Anakin was created as a direct result of Plagueis' machinations. And try to be a little more thorough than S66, otherwise you'll end up having to bet smarter people to fight your battles.

There was Yoda, Kenobi, and Luke. Then Kenobi let Vader strike him down, and Yoda fell asleep and died, both leaving Luke the only jedi left against Vader and Sidious. Imbalance was caused by Yoda and Kenobi, then Vader had to sacrifice himself and kill Sidious, leaving just Luke. Balance was never achieved. I'm confused.

You're good at math. Please dumb this down for me again.

Do not be surprised if the new movie has a Sith or a Dark-sider in general that is way more powerful than Palpatine.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Do not be surprised if the new movie has a Sith or a Dark-sider in general that is way more powerful than Palpatine.

This is what I'm afraid of to be honest. 😘

I don't think Disney can create a new sith as good as Vader or Sidious so I hope they use Caedus as he is the only villain came after Palpatine who is fit to be an antagonist of a movie unlike the Vong, Abeloth or Krayt.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
There was Yoda, Kenobi, and Luke. Then Kenobi let Vader strike him down, and Yoda fell asleep and died, both leaving Luke the only jedi left against Vader and Sidious. Imbalance was caused by Yoda and Kenobi, then Vader had to sacrifice himself and kill Sidious, leaving just Luke. Balance was never achieved. I'm confused.

You're good at math. Please dumb this down for me again.

How did Sidious by himself cause imbalance against the entire jedi order, and then Yoda and Obiwan caused imbalance against Sidious?

If we go by EU, killing Sidious did not bring the balance to the Force. Balance was maintained by Mortis family. After their death there is no one to keep balance.

This is really my entire point. I've lost familiarity with this shit a while back, then new and more contradictory storylines opened up. It's amusing to watch fanboys pick and choose what to follow though. I remember doing the same with Vitiate and Revan.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

No, the Ones were physical manifestations of the Force on Mortis. "Balance" was represented by The Father. But again, all that was relevant only to Mortis.

Iirc the episode made it kind of clear that their Balance had repercussions on the rest of the Galaxy.

Hence why when the Daughter dies, The Father said the Sith have gained strength.

Not that it matters in this debate though, because all 3 of them died by the end of that arc.

And aren't they considered part of canon? If so, doesn't that reduce Sidious' power and Anakin's contribution? It gets dumber the more we talk about it.

Originally posted by psmith81992
doesn't that reduce Sidious' power and Anakin's contribution?

How so? Sidious caused imbalance in the force. The Ones were more powerful and could have shifted that balance one way or the other were they not controlled by The Father. But they all died in the end so had no effect on Sidious and Vader's destiny or balancing/imbalancing of the Force.

But it was just said that the Father kept the balance. I understand when the daughter died, the balance didn't exist. But that doesn't account for Palpatine's reign or death. So I want to know how you people reconcile all of this nonsense.

Originally posted by psmith81992
But it was just said that the Father kept the balance. I understand when the daughter died, the balance didn't exist. But that doesn't account for Palpatine's reign or death. So I want to know how you people reconcile all of this nonsense.

The Father only kept balance between the Son and Daughter. Because if either one of them was to be dominant, that would shift the balance of the Force throughout the Galaxy.

But when all 3 of them died that subject was no longer relevant, and had zero impact on Sidious causing an imbalance in the force, or on Vader restoring that balance.

Oh and btw to whoever said the force was out of balance since TPM that's not true in Official Canon. Because when Darth Maul is revived on TCW, he senses for the first time that the Force is out of Balance.

Oh and btw to whoever said the force was out of balance since TPM that's not true in Official Canon. Because when Darth Maul is revived on TCW, he senses for the first time that the Force is out of Balance.

SWTOR have its own take on "balance of the Force" theory:

The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted. But it was always there in some way, shape, or form.

&

"The Force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness and destruction. It is inevitable that a champion of the light will one day rise to oppose him. I may be that champion." (Revan)

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh and btw to whoever said the force was out of balance since TPM that's not true in Official Canon. Because when Darth Maul is revived on TCW, he senses for the first time that the Force is out of Balance.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Force is out of balance before Maul was even born. I gave a quote from when it actually happened. The Jedi's impaired sensing also began before TCW. What Maul is talking about is the Clone Wars. Not the shift that happened before he even existed.

Where's the quote from though? Is it Eu, or an official canon source?

I'm just pointing out that line in TCW seems to suggest "Official Canon" has the Force out of balance Post TPM.

Originally posted by Unbowed
My point is exactly what I said. That Krayt had surpassed Sidious.

...Except your conclusion doesn't logically follow your premise. Sidious was long dead before the events of Apocalypse and Abeloth hadn't been released during Sidious's lifetime. Now had Sidious and Abeloth been around during that time and Krayt stepped up to the plate anyway, thus being "chosen" over Palpatine, you'd have something resembling a cogent point. But that wasn't the case and so you don't. 😬

Originally posted by Unbowed
Happy to. The passage is called "reading comprehension".

Chaos and Balance are the theme of the whole book. That Abeloth was simply beyond anything the Galaxy had ever seen before, beyond even Sidious and Vader(a character literally says as much, though I can't remember who). That with the Ones gone, only Jedi and Sith together can stop her. That Luke and Krayt had to step in the shoes of the Son and the Daughter. Abeloth was the "Bringer of Chaos", and only balance could stop her. Balance between light and dark.

Light Side = Dark Side
Daughter = Son
Luke = Krayt

They are each equals and opposites, counterparts. Balance.

That duality is emphasized over and over again so many times the writer might as well have smacked you across the head with the book. If you don't get that, I'm not sure what can be done for you...

Sounds like the passage is called "fanon." Sidious was long dead by the time Abeloth was released, he wasn't around to even qualify for such a "duality." That Krayt stepped up to challenge Abeloth beside Luke implies he's the strongest Sith Lord at that time (which no one disputes), but to suggest that it indicates conclusive superiority over any Sith Lord who wasn't alive at the time is pretty stupid.

Try harder, bro.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Where's the quote from though? Is it Eu, or an official canon source?

I'm just pointing out that line in TCW seems to suggest "Official Canon" has the Force out of balance Post TPM.

The end of Cloak of Deception has the Jedi Council remarking that "the balance is tipping." Darth Plagueis (in one of, if not the, dumbest parts of the book) has Plagueis and Sidious willfully throwing the Force out of whack in a ritual. StarWars.com states, under the Sith entry, that "the Sith had returned, clouding the Force with the power of the dark side." And Darth Maul remarks in Star Wars: The Clone Wars that the Force is out of balance, implying it wasn't when he was last sane.

So nothing makes sense anymore. Got it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Darth Plagueis (in one of, if not the, dumbest parts of the book) has Plagueis and Sidious willfully throwing the Force out of whack in a ritual.