DARTH POWER
Senior Member
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
DP, so you take back your original notion regarding Savage's one on one with Sidious, and believe Savage lasted as long as he did because he's just that good and not because Sidious purposely prolonged it for his own amusement, since Filoni didn't outright state it (although he heavily implied it), and because he wasn't specific with the statement you keep harping on? So Savage can put up a better fight and last longer against Sidious than he can against Maul?
Hey? No I admit Sidious was pretty relaxed and taking his time killing Opress in their 1 vs 1.
What I don't buy is that negates the whole rest of the battle Opress had put up before then.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You can't compare a few moments of laughter during his fight with Yoda, because they were very brief and completely overshadowed by his consistent signs of frustration, strain/struggling, and fear.
Again, obviously he'll struggle a hell of a lot against someone whose his Equal (or near Equal at least).
But that doesn't change the fact that when he's not straining he laughed, in a fight that was clearly difficult for him.
Hence his laughter doesn't mean he's toying.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not to mention that majority of his laughter happened when he was at a safe distance from Yoda and continuously throwing senate pods, which had Yoda distracted by dodging.
He was smiling (and happy) right at the onset of the Saber fight. He was also laughing when they were in a Saber lock. Again I admit he couldn't laugh the whole time, because Yoda really pushed him to his limit at times. But the point stands, that his whole demeanor of laughter and smiley faces doesn't mean he's toying.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
His laughter at Yoda was more as a tactic to try to cause Yoda to get frustrated and lose his concentration (you know, EU's dun moch lol). Such tactics weren't necessary to defeat the bros, considering he could have ended them with the force alone, as you admitted. Plus he was smiling when the brothers couldn't even see his face. Obviously he was just having a good time and enjoying the fight just as Filoni outright stated.
That's a good theory, one you should have brought up a lot earlier. But it is just speculation, and contradicted by the Official Site which also outright states that Sidious enjoyed engaging Yoda.
So that was the real reason for his smile, his opportunity to defeat Yoda, knowing that even if he just stalemates him, he's essentially won.
Besides even Dun Moch can be used against inferior opponents. Seen as Dooku used Dun Moch against AOTC Kenobi.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Furthermore, his smiling and laughter isn't the only indication that he wasn't taking them seriously. His calmness, relaxation, and constant pauses are other indications, along with the fact that he deactivated his sabers mid-duel. As I said, Sidious was fighting the brothers completely out of his style; he wasn't aggressive at all. And as Tempest said, why would Sidious hold back his force powers and then decide to try his absolute hardest with his sabers?
He seemed quite calm and relaxed when the Jedi Council came for him. He let them ignite their Sabers before he took out his own Saber. He had pauses in his fight against Mace. Pauses are all apart of combat. No one just continuously non-stop strikes at each other.
He deactivated his Sabers to Kick floor Opress, and Tk KO Maul. He just switched combat tactic. As Marco has pointed out Opress also had his Saber deactivated at one point when he ran at Sidious to knock him off the balcony.
Hey? Filoni specifically stated that they took Sidious's fighting style straight from the movies and expanded on it.
As for why would Sidious hold back in Force powers but not in Sabers, well as I've already pointed out, you can reverse that logic: Why would Sidious make the Saber fight look like a fight, yet he never made the Force struggle look like a fight?
Even IF Sidious was TOYING(a word never actually used by Filoni in all his countless commentaries of the fight) at times during the Saber fight, that would still not prove Sidious can speed blitz Maul. But the fact that Filoni clarified Opress's superior performance over the B-Team, and the fact that Windu (Sidious's near equal in Sword fighting) could not speed blitz Maul, is all pretty solid proof that Sidious can not speed blitz Maul or Maul+Opress, (at least in official canon).
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
"Unleashing his full fury" against the council members isn't a term used to describe someone enjoying a fight against his opponents, it implies a blood lust intent; and being "fueled by the dark side" is just a fact about Sidious, otherwise he wouldn't be able to enjoy his fight with a very large muscular zabrak and his other zabrak brother, both of whom are known for being stronger and more durable than a human, let alone an elderly one. Just pointing that out before you try to compare the two different statements as if they both reflect Sidious's mindset, when, in fact, only one of them does--the one that applies to the council members.
Of course he unleashed his full fury on the Council. I mean he did straight up kill them. We don't need a quote for that.
But when you say he can't enjoy that you're wrong. In the EU (your "unleashing full fury" quote is from the eu) Windu enjoys the thrill of the battle. And as of official canon, Sidious enjoyed his battle with Yoda, whilst obviously using his full dark side power.
The Offiical Canon quote of Sidious's intentions with Maul is "seeing him as a rival to be destroyed", certainly doesn't suggest he's there to mess around, nor do any of Filoni's comments about Sidious intentions for going there and fighting them. In fact Filoni even describes the battle at one point as "this legitimate fight."
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If you can, address these points logically, or let's call quits.
I've tried my best to be as logical as possible with all the points you've raised. But I know your not going to accept any of them.
And I'm just never going to buy the Maul/Opress duo being no better than The B-Team against Sidious. I've seen no evidence of that at all.
I mean I fully admit after all of Filoni's comments that Maul and Opress (even combined) were never any real competition for Sidious. But I also stick by Filoni's views that even Opress performed better than the B-Team.
So I see the Sidious vs Maul (or Sidious vs Maul+Opress) fight as more of a Dooku vs Ventress type thing, than a Sidious vs Fisto situation.
Ventress on her own was never a threat to Count Dooku ("you're no match for me without your monster"😉. She was never able to "touch" Dooku or give him a proper challenge. She Ultimately was never Competiton for him. There's a tremendous gap in their force powers as well.
Yet despite all that, in their 1 vs 1 Ventress did not go down without putting up a fight. She was not Saber/Speed Blitzed. But the difference in power and combat prowess between Dooku and Ventress was clearly large.
