Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your bias for Zannah is actually stronger then my bias against Zannah. 😐
You put her Darth Bane level... I put her Darth Maul level. Please explain how my is not acceptable yet yours is.
I don't even like Zannah. I think she's a pretty terribly written character. You actually hate her though.
Zannah trained with and dueled Bane quite well and actually beat him. She was also stated to have the potential and power to surpass Bane and was trained with that in mind. That's the whole point of the Rule of Two.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't even like Zannah. I think she's a pretty terribly written character. You actually hate her though.Zannah trained with and dueled Bane quite well and actually beat him. She was also stated to have the potential and power to surpass Bane and was trained with that in mind. That's the whole point of the Rule of Two.
These double-standards just killed me. Maul>Bane confirmed?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's a sin to lie.These double-standards just killed me. Maul>Bane confirmed?
I'm not lying. I hate the concept behind Zannah's fighting style, how she's apparently too weak to fight offensively. That offends me. Also she's a ****ing monster who tortured and maddened her own cousin and has no redeeming qualities.
Maul never got to the point of even approaching Sidious let alone surpassing him. The RoT is meaningless to him. And it's nowhere near perfect. However Bane designed it to have the apprentice surpass the master and he selected an apprentice with the ability to do that, who did kill him in a duel.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's not bias, that's another level entirely.
Good to know.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Is it called sanity?I mean, this is Ant arguing Zannah we're talking about.....
lol thanks Neph, I like to think i'm being more than fair when i say i'm actually taking his arguments into account despite his Bias.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not lying. I hate the concept behind Zannah's fighting style, how she's apparently too weak to fight offensively. That offends me. Also she's a ****ing monster who tortured and maddened her own cousin and has no redeeming qualities.Maul never got to the point of even approaching Sidious let alone surpassing him. The RoT is meaningless to him. And it's nowhere near perfect. However Bane designed it to have the apprentice surpass the master and he selected an apprentice with the ability to do that, who did kill him in a duel.
Okay, then Cognus>Bane confirmed.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Mmk.Okay, then Cognus>Bane confirmed.
Well Cognus did beat Bane, remember. 😉
But no, Cognus wasn't noted for her force power. Bane selected her for her foresight and innate power dampening ability. Theres no indication that she had the potential to become more powerful than Zannah, although we know she did defeat her somehow. Things like this are why the RoT wasn't perfect. Theres not necessarily an improvement.
Originally posted by Arhael
Not even Kyp Durron. Lets not forget that he got handled by a single weakened Slayer. While Jaina got attacked by 7 Slayers and they failed to take her down. And that's Jaina before her prime and Mandalorian training.
I have addressed this issue several times before on this board, and once specifically with you(i think), but let me try again:
Kyp Durron fought the very first YV Slayer encounterd by anyone in the NJO, and had no idea what they were capable of. It landed 1 attack that disabled Kyp.
Meanwhile Jaina, at the end of the NJO series, goes with Luke and Jacen to confront the Shimmra, while being in a battle meld together and armed with the info about Slayers that Kyp and his group were able to provide them with.
To compare those two feats is...lunacy. Or maybe you just hate Kyp and love Jaina, idk.
So let us get to the heart of things:
What is Zannah going to do to kill Jaina? she is apparently the greatest Soresu master of all time ever, fine that is great...
How is she killing Jaina? a duelist whom in her prime was considered by Luke to be the future of lightsaber combat.
If Zannah goes on the offensive in a duel she would immediately get slaughtered, remember what Caedus stated about her style? 'ruthless, conservative, designed to deal damage and take none in return'(simplifying).
She has dueling contemporaries that Bane can't even compare to and Zannah couldn't take him despite the fact he lacked his own weapon, she even admitted inferiority to him and stated that he had forced her into a duel instead of using the weapon she is best with: sorcery. (inb4 'N/A cus reasons'😉
So what is Zannah going to do? illusions? the Dark Force Temple drove Kyle to the dark side, deafened Ben to the Force and all she had was a migraine, the Dark Force Temple mind you was stated to be 'heavy with illusion'.
Abeloth's very presence can 'indoctrinate' someone, but Jedi like Jaina, Luke, etc... were stated to be too strong mentally for it to work on.
Not to mention she was considered an 'exceptional master' of Battle-Meld one of the most difficult mentally challenging powers in the lore.
Zannah isn't getting the cheap mental win nor can she take Jaina through a stealth kill... it comes down to a duel and all Zannah can do is bide time... Jaina has crazy endurance feats and is not going to tire out first... the moment Zannah goes offensive Jaina wins.
Zannah would take Jaina via illusions. Walking up to the Dark Temple without losing her shit is not nearly impressive enough to prove that she could resist Zannah's illusions, nor is being in Abeloth's presence. Neither of those are direct and focused attacks designed to rip her mind apart. Bluntly put, Jaina has nothing to suggest she'd shrug off Zannah's illusions, or even overcome them.
Could someone clear this up for me?
Jaina was able to resist Abeloth's indoctrination ability. however.... i was under the impression that, that has also been done by Non force users?(Boba Fett comes to mind) not saying Abeloth sucks or anything like that, but Her mental assaults weren't directly focused on Jaina or Boba where they? If someone could clear that up, I would greatly appreciate it.(Still undecided, been going back & forth lol)
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Could someone clear this up for me?Jaina was able to resist Abeloth's indoctrination ability. however.... i was under the impression that, that has also been done by Non force users?(Boba Fett comes to mind) not saying Abeloth sucks or anything like that, but Her mental assaults weren't directly focused on Jaina or Boba where they? If someone could clear that up, I would greatly appreciate it.(Still undecided, been going back & forth lol)
Kind of unclear, but it's logical to assume they were all under assault.
We have seen non-force users resist Domination or illusions before, it takes mental resolve and force of will.
Cad bane for example, it took Anakin Skywalker, Mace windu and Plo Koon (Was it koon? I forget the third) to even convince him to talk, and even then he was still resisting them, it just hurt.
Originally posted by Selenial
Kind of unclear, but it's logical to assume they were all under assault.We have seen non-force users resist Domination or illusions before, it takes mental resolve and force of will.
Cad bane for example, it took Anakin Skywalker, Mace windu and Plo Koon (Was it koon? I forget the third) to even convince him to talk, and even then he was still resisting them, it just hurt.
It was Obi-Wan. Plo Koon would not fail.
Originally posted by AncientPower
So let us get to the heart of things:What is Zannah going to do to kill Jaina? she is apparently the greatest Soresu master of all time ever, fine that is great...
How is she killing Jaina? a duelist whom in her prime was considered by Luke to be the future of lightsaber combat.
If Zannah goes on the offensive in a duel she would immediately get slaughtered, remember what Caedus stated about her style? 'ruthless, conservative, designed to deal damage and take none in return'(simplifying).
Well in a pure lightsaber duel I imagine Zannah would wear Jaina down and tire her out until she can afford to go on the offense and beat her. Zannah's specifically trained in stamina and her style requires the minimal amount of effort from herself to go up against attackers. Jaina would tire first in a duel if she can't get through the defense.
But her real strategy will be to defend long enough to hit her with a suped-up spell and take her out with the Force.
Originally posted by AncientPower
She has dueling contemporaries that Bane can't even compare to and Zannah couldn't take him despite the fact he lacked his own weapon, she even admitted inferiority to him and stated that he had forced her into a duel instead of using the weapon she is best with: sorcery. (inb4 'N/A cus reasons'😉
I put Kas'im above all of her comtemporaries in lightsaber skill and Bane was beating him and stated that he knew everything Kas'im could throw out. So you're drastically selling him sort there.
Originally posted by AncientPower
So what is Zannah going to do? illusions? the Dark Force Temple drove Kyle to the dark side, deafened Ben to the Force and all she had was a migraine, the Dark Force Temple mind you was stated to be 'heavy with illusion'.Abeloth's very presence can 'indoctrinate' someone, but Jedi like Jaina, Luke, etc... were stated to be too strong mentally for it to work on.
The Dark Temple that non-force sensitives can walk in no probs and Abeloth who non-force sensitives could fight? Nice.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Not to mention she was considered an 'exceptional master' of Battle-Meld one of the most difficult mentally challenging powers in the lore.Zannah isn't getting the cheap mental win nor can she take Jaina through a stealth kill... it comes down to a duel and all Zannah can do is bide time... Jaina has crazy endurance feats and is not going to tire out first... the moment Zannah goes offensive Jaina wins.
No-one's saying Jaina is mentally weak, but her will doesn't compare to Bane's and Zannah's amped up attack would have torn his mind apart. Jaina can't deal with a direct mental attack of that caliber.
No one mentioned stealth lol.