Kyle Katarn vs Aryn Leneer

Started by S_W_LeGenD6 pages

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Based on feats and accolades? Having his father's potential and the age to realize it?

Feats do not prove superiority in the context of power, they are practical for "versus" debates mostly.

Luke Skywalker have not been officially confirmed to be the most powerful Force-user barring The Ones and Abeloth; this is fanon assumption. Most sources have firmly established Luke Skywalker as being the most powerful Jedi of his era. You can check some quotes in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=594243&pagenumber=1

As far as potential-related argument is concerned, Disney is rewriting canon:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. A hero of the Clone Wars, Anakin was caring and compassionate, but also had a fear of loss that would prove to be his downfall.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Star Wars is an evolving mythos in which older information can be retconned by newer information. Therefore, caution is advised.

lol

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
lol

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Feats do not prove superiority in the context of power, they are practical for "versus" debates mostly.

Luke Skywalker have not been officially confirmed to be the most powerful Force-user barring The Ones and Abeloth; this is fanon assumption. Most sources have firmly established Luke Skywalker as being the most powerful Jedi of his era. You can check some quotes in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=594243&pagenumber=1

As far as potential-related argument is concerned, Disney is rewriting canon:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. A hero of the Clone Wars, Anakin was caring and compassionate, but also had a fear of loss that would prove to be his downfall.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Star Wars is an evolving mythos in which older information can be retconned by newer information. Therefore, caution is advised.

You're still on this?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Feats do not prove superiority in the context of power, they are practical for "versus" debates mostly.

What do you mean by "prove"? They establish evidence to support a theory; nobody is suggesting a math-style deductive proof of Luke's supremacy, or whatever.


Luke Skywalker have not been officially confirmed to be the most powerful Force-user barring The Ones;

So what? Anakin has never been officially confirmed to be a superior duelist to Colomen Trebor. We can nonetheless draw such reasonable conclusions from analysis of feats and accolades.

As far as potential-related argument is concerned, Disney is rewriting canon:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. A hero of the Clone Wars, Anakin was caring and compassionate, but also had a fear of loss that would prove to be his downfall.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Star Wars is an evolving mythos in which older information can be retconned by newer information.

Anakin at full potential is more powerful than Yoda, who is the most powerful Jedi to his point of all time. Nothing in the new canon refutes this. Calling Anakin potentially "one of" the most powerful Jedi of all time does not preclude his being the most powerful, nor do I think that the author of the quote honestly intends to subtly insert that an ancient Force user may have been more powerful than Anakin, and that this is somehow indicative of a new narrative intention on the part of Disney. You're obviously taking a throwaway semantics distinction and trying to run with it, and to call it straw grasping would be quite the understatement.

Luke Skywalker's feats and accolades put him at the top of all non-deitic force users in the SW mythos. If you wish to argue them, I will be glad to do so. I am not glad to entertain strawman arguments about "officially confirmed" statuses.

Originally posted by Aurbere
You're still on this?

So, I guess he is the one you were imitating.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Feats do not prove superiority in the context of power, they are practical for "versus" debates mostly.

Luke Skywalker have not been officially confirmed to be the most powerful Force-user barring The Ones and Abeloth; this is fanon assumption. Most sources have firmly established Luke Skywalker as being the most powerful Jedi of his era. You can check some quotes in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=594243&pagenumber=1

As far as potential-related argument is concerned, Disney is rewriting canon:

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. A hero of the Clone Wars, Anakin was caring and compassionate, but also had a fear of loss that would prove to be his downfall.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Star Wars is an evolving mythos in which older information can be retconned by newer information. Therefore, caution is advised.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
So, I guess he is the one you were imitating.

Indeed.

Damn it, Skybreaker.

/awaits the H-bombs of wank and tidal waves of encylopedia quotes.

Originally posted by Aurbere
You're still on this?

Can you prove that Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Force-user barring The Ones and Abeloth?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Can you prove that Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Force-user barring The Ones and Abeloth?

In DE he defeats Palpatine with some Force harmony from Leia that unlocks "hidden resources" within him. Palpatine at this point is clearly the most powerful force user (barring the ones and abeloth) in galactic history by numerous authorial fiats (and by virtue of his ridiculous feats). I think 30+ years of training can unlock those "hidden resources" unless if Leia's Force harmony is the most powerful Force technique in the mythos, despite Leia having had virtually no training, and Luke not even noticing it at first.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Can you prove that Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Force-user barring The Ones and Abeloth?

We tried that on the SWTOR forums. It was about as effective as telling you that Vitiate isn't as powerful as Father. Don't know if your opinion changed on that front, but I haven't seen the fruits of such labor.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Anakin at full potential is more powerful than Yoda, who is the most powerful Jedi to his point of all time.

IS Yoda the most powerful Jedi up to his time though? In the new canon?

Originally posted by Nephthys
IS Yoda the most powerful Jedi up to his time though? In the new canon?

I wouldn't consider the new Revan as a Jedi to be honest. Whatever floats your boat though.

Didn't some hash Disney put together call Sidious and Yoda "ultimate masters?"

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I wouldn't consider the new Revan as a Jedi to be honest. Whatever floats your boat though.

I'm open to that. 👆

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Didn't some hash Disney put together call Sidious and Yoda "ultimate masters?"

Yep.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
What do you mean by "prove"? They establish evidence to support a theory; nobody is suggesting a math-style deductive proof of Luke's supremacy, or whatever.

A solid argument for Luke Skywalker being the most powerful Force-user of the mythos was once possible. Then Abeloth was introduced which was touted to be a dozen times stronger then Luke Skywalker. This declaration was challenged by some on the basis of superiority of G-canon over C-canon argument but The Ones came in to the picture as well.

You see where this is heading?

Luke Skywalker could be the most powerful Jedi to have ever existed throughout galactic history but a hype more ambitious then this one is subject to scrutiny.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
So what? Anakin has never been officially confirmed to be a superior duelist to Colomen Trebor. We can nonetheless draw such reasonable conclusions from analysis of feats and accolades.

Yes, it is possible to establish superiority of a character over another but this is possible on the basis of multiple forms of evidence.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Anakin at full potential is more powerful than Yoda, who is the most powerful Jedi to his point of all time. Nothing in the new canon refutes this. Calling Anakin potentially "one of" the most powerful Jedi of all time does not preclude his being the most powerful, nor do I think that the author of the quote honestly intends to subtly insert that an ancient Force user may have been more powerful than Anakin, and that this is somehow indicative of a new narrative intention on the part of Disney. You're obviously taking a throwaway semantics distinction and trying to run with it, and to call it straw grasping would be quite the understatement.

This is an interesting take on this matter, I admit. However, you are sticking to older sources for information. Latest developments and revisions leave the possibility of your assertion being challenged.

For Yoda:

Yoda was a legendary Jedi Master and stronger than most in his connection with the Force. Small in size but wise and powerful, he trained Jedi for over 800 years, playing integral roles in the Clone Wars, the instruction of Luke Skywalker, and unlocking the path to immortality.

Source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/yoda

The "one of" point leaves room for flexibility in ranking of Anakin Skywalker on holistic level. He might rank # 1 but he may also rank # 10.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
Luke Skywalker's feats and accolades put him at the top of all non-deitic force users in the SW mythos. If you wish to argue them, I will be glad to do so. I am not glad to entertain strawman arguments about "officially confirmed" statuses.

Covered above.

Originally posted by Skybreaker
In DE he defeats Palpatine with some Force harmony from Leia that unlocks "hidden resources" within him. Palpatine at this point is clearly the most powerful force user (barring the ones and abeloth) in galactic history by numerous authorial fiats (and by virtue of his ridiculous feats). I think 30+ years of training can unlock those "hidden resources" unless if Leia's Force harmony is the most powerful Force technique in the mythos, despite Leia having had virtually no training, and Luke not even noticing it at first.

Force Harmony unlocked the combined strength of 2 Skywalkers and 1 Solo which Luke Skywalker channeled to disarm Darth Sidious.

Palpatine, as of this time, might be the most powerful Force-user barring The Ones and Abeloth but Emperor Vitiate have even greater hype. To be honest, BioWare doesn't cares about continuity in the context of power of characters.

Luke faught Sidious before they cut him off from the Force. 😬