Originally posted by Bardock42Like black people! If there were any black people looking to this thread, they'd be really offen—
My preference is when jokes are aimed at unjust power structures in the status quo. I don't like when jokes are at the expense of people who already get ****ed over.
Oh, wait. Hey there Riv.
Originally posted by Bardock42I agree, but as long as it's done in small groups I see no problem with it, even if they are distasteful. A lot of people find them funny because they're so clearly stereotypical and clearly not representative of the community they jibe. It's an ironic take on old racist/sexist jokes. Laughing at the problem, not the targets of the jokes.
Not every black person needs to be offended for racist jokes to have a negative impact and being distasteful...
But please B, let's not start this again now, it's way too early...
Actually, just for the sake of example, to show what I mean:
Me and my Northern mates (by this point most of my mates are Northern, so this happens plenty) take the piss out of each other constantly. "You bloody Southern ****, with your posh accent, yer get poof. All you Southern bastards are the same, think yer better than us!" "Yeah well **** you, Northern inbred ape, backwards bunch of racist scum! Good thing we taught you speak, eh!"
Clearly, we don't actually think those things. And we don't expect anybody listening to take what we're saying seriously.
I don't plan on stopping those jokes with my friend just because someone, ooh, might get offended. Because that would be bloody ridiculous.
Why is it okay to make White jokes and not Black jokes? I never lynched anybody, never stole anybody's land. So I could easily take offence at these unfair, generalised remarks about my race. But I don't, because it's a joke. We're at a point where we can laugh at broad generalisations and know they're bullshit.
Dammit Scribs, I said it was too early for this!!
Originally posted by SlayLearnt this all too well. crackers
Don't you know Marzipan is the fun police?
Originally posted by Scribble
Actually, just for the sake of example, to show what I mean:Me and my Northern mates (by this point most of my mates are Northern, so this happens plenty) take the piss out of each other constantly. "You bloody Southern ****, with your posh accent, yer get poof. All you Southern bastards are the same, think yer better than us!" "Yeah well **** you, Northern inbred ape, backwards bunch of racist scum! Good thing we taught you speak, eh!"
Clearly, we don't actually think those things. And we don't expect anybody listening to take what we're saying seriously.
I don't plan on stopping those jokes with my friend just because someone, ooh, might get offended. Because that would be bloody ridiculous.
Why is it okay to make White jokes and not Black jokes? I never lynched anybody, never stole anybody's land. So I could easily take offence at these unfair, generalised remarks about my race. But I don't, because it's a joke. We're at a point where we can laugh at broad generalisations and know they're bullshit.
Dammit Scribs, I said it was too early for this!!
Learnt this all too well. crackers
You can't go against what he dictates.
Originally posted by Kharhmah
I wasn't complaining about the white jokes.
My thinking is, either these types of jokes are all wrong, or all okay.
I remember when Isaac Hayes quit South Park (whete he'd gleefully helped poke fun at race/religion/sexual preference for years) becsuse they'd done a scientology episode.
All of a sudden he had a problem with doing the show.
Hypocrisy at its finest.
But i digress. Either these, lets call them off color (to encompass racisi/sexism) jokes are all wrong or all okay.
Picking and choosing is kind of meh.
Originally posted by Scribble
Why is it okay to make White jokes and not Black jokes? I never lynched anybody, never stole anybody's land. So I could easily take offence at these unfair, generalised remarks about my race. But I don't, because it's a joke. We're at a point where we can laugh at broad generalisations and know they're bullshit.
While you didn't lynch anyone and didn't steal anyone's lands and didn't have slaves, these are still things that happened that have repercussions until today.
And while I do believe that you somehow enjoy them ironically, and of course don't hold these believes, that doesn't stop them from having negative consequences, it doesn't stop them from supporting racists in their view of "oh, most people think like me, they are just too scared to say it".
Take Esau's joke, of course I assume that to him it was a well thought out jab taken at the prevalence of rape in society, the statistically false stereotype of the (black) stranger as a perpetrator and the common racist view against interracial relationships, but to most other people, it's just a racist, sexist rape joke, and if one of the people reading it is a rapist he will feel supported in his twisted view, and if one of the readers is a rape victim they will feel belittled and ostracized.
And that's why jokes against whites are not as problematic as jokes against blacks, because the circumstances are different and the consequences are different (similar to how it's not as big a deal if you slap someone's hand while they are walking somewhere, while it is a very big deal if you slap someone's hand while they are holding on to a ledge in order to not fall 10 stories).
"and if one of the readers is a rape victim they will feel belittled and ostracized" — I don't know if you should start making broad generalisations just yet, man. They don't hold up well to scrutiny. I'm sure there are plenty of rape survivors who have found humour to be an outlet for their emotional damage. When my mate's dad died, he started making jokes about it straight away, because he made fun of everything that way. And you could tell although it hurt him to make those jokes, that it was helping him face the pain of losing a parent. People do things different ways, so don't say "ALL rape survivors would find this offensive". It's just plain untrue.
The 'Patriarchy' as it is known had more victims than just races. As a young white guy, I feel totally disenfranchised by the society I live in, but I'm not allowed to say that, am I? Because I'm white and a male, so there's no way I've ever been marginalised. And it's bullshit.
This is why I can't get behind the stuff you say on these matters — they don't focus on equality in any real way, they serve only to pander to those who are offended by things in obvious ways. It's a kneejerk liberal state of mind. Which is fine in some contexts — I felt very uncomfortable when I used to go to my ex's house and her parents and their friends would make racist jokes that I knew didn't have that self-satirical, ironic element. It bolstered the status quo. Making these jokes in that ironic way actually has potential to attack the status quo: i.e., your attempts at breaking us down don't work any more, we've turned them into something harmless. And for that to work, we all need to be fair game, and accept that we aren't attacking each other. We're creating solidarity by accepting that we are more than our stereotype tells us we are.