SS4 Gogeta va All

Originally posted by juggerman
I didn't suggest, you did right here:

Nice try tho. And again you cannot prove he used the exact same power he used against Vegeta.

i was feeding off of your stipulation

Originally posted by yungz22
i was feeding off of your stipulation

In other words you made a claim and tried to get me to disprove it instead of you backing it up in any way. Trolling 101

Originally posted by juggerman
In other words you made a claim and tried to get me to disprove it instead of you backing it up in any way. Trolling 101

Or part genius 😆

Originally posted by juggerman
In other words you made a claim and tried to get me to disprove it instead of you backing it up in any way. Trolling 101

not exactly that conclusion came from your speculative declaration

it came from your claims if you say vegeta made bills bleed and goku didnt that is what youd be suggesting.

Originally posted by yungz22
not exactly that conclusion came from your speculative declaration

it came from your claims if you say vegeta made bills bleed and goku didnt that is what youd be suggesting.

There was nothing speculative about Vegeta making Beerus bleed. It's plain as day. What's speculative is claiming it was a mistake with no real proof.

It's not at all. There could be a number of reasons Beerus didn't bleed. You are jumping to a specific conclusion and expecting me to disprove it for you.

Originally posted by juggerman
There was nothing speculative about Vegeta making Beerus bleed. It's plain as day. What's speculative is claiming it was a mistake with no real proof.

It's not at all. There could be a number of reasons Beerus didn't bleed. You are jumping to a specific conclusion and expecting me to disprove it for you.

for vegeta to make him bleed then that means your saying hes stronger than god goku

Originally posted by yungz22
for vegeta to make him bleed then that means your saying hes stronger than god goku

Nope

Originally posted by juggerman
Nope

then youd have to prove that bills changed his powerlevel before he fought goku for your assertion to be correct.

remember bills was still exceedingly stronger than goku. he didnt need to raise his power level to beat him. he only did to show goku how futile his god form was compared to him

Originally posted by yungz22
then youd have to prove that bills changed his powerlevel before he fought goku for your assertion to be correct.

remember bills was still exceedingly stronger than goku. he didnt need to raise his power level to beat him. he only did to show goku how futile his god form was compared to him

Again, you are making this claim, not me. Therefore you need to back it up. I never claimed Vegeta was stronger. You did and are trying to make me prove it for you.

Again in DBZ you don't need to visably power up to raise your strength. This has been shown. If you are of the opinion that he used the exact same strength, prove it.

has it? ^ can I have an example please. Im just curious. Not siding with anybody here.

Originally posted by bbrem123
has it? ^ can I have an example please. Im just curious. Not siding with anybody here.

Has it been shown? Sure has. Look at:

1. Goku vs The Ginyus- Increased and decreased his ki so fast, it didn't register on the scouters. Krillin and Gohan couldn't even keep track of him

2. Frieza vs Goku- Frieza was fighting Goku with an estimated 3% of his power. When he decided to get serious, he increased his power to 50%. No visable change, no charging, no nothing. That's over 16 times stronger with no outward signs.

Originally posted by juggerman
Has it been shown? Sure has. Look at:

1. Goku vs The Ginyus- Increased and decreased his ki so fast, it didn't register on the scouters. Krillin and Gohan couldn't even keep track of him

2. Frieza vs Goku- Frieza was fighting Goku with an estimated 3% of his power. When he decided to get serious, he increased his power to 50%. No visable change, no charging, no nothing. That's over 16 times stronger with no outward signs.

i don"t remember frieza fighting at 3%

scans for both your examples?

and thats not proof that bills did that here btw.

Originally posted by yungz22
i don"t remember frieza fighting at 3%

scans for both your examples?

and thats not proof that bills did that here btw.

It was never stated which is why I said "estimated".

Come on they aren't hard to find.

It's not my claim to prove or disprove. Burden is on you

Since I pride myself on being the nicest guy ever, here you go.

Frieza says he knows Goku is holding back but he can still kill him only using 50%:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2961-2/dragon-ball/chapter-312.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2961-3/dragon-ball/chapter-312.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2961-4/dragon-ball/chapter-312.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2961-4/dragon-ball/chapter-312.html

As you can see, Frieza did not visably power up yet Goku felt his power rising enough to know it wasn't a bluff. You can read on yourself if you'd like.

And here's the Ginyu part. Now, since this part is longer, I will not link every page. Just the ones that show what I am talking about. You can follow the link and read thru it yourself to ensure I'm not hiding anything.

First they check Goku's PL
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2928-13/dragon-ball/chapter-279.html

Then Recoome attacks and Goku "disappears". No one but Vegeta was able to follow his movements and no one noticed his PL increased and decreased so rapidly:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-4/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-5/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-6/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-7/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-8/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

As Recoome charges up no one senses that Goku is the stronger of the two:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-10/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

Then Goku strikes and still no one senses he was stronger:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-11/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-12/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-13/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

That's enough for now to prove my point I think

Originally posted by juggerman
Since I pride myself on being the nicest guy ever, here you go.

Frieza says he knows Goku is holding back but he can still kill him only using 50%:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2961-2/dragon-ball/chapter-312.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2961-3/dragon-ball/chapter-312.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2961-4/dragon-ball/chapter-312.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2961-4/dragon-ball/chapter-312.html

As you can see, Frieza did not visably power up yet Goku felt his power rising enough to know it wasn't a bluff. You can read on yourself if you'd like.

And here's the Ginyu part. Now, since this part is longer, I will not link every page. Just the ones that show what I am talking about. You can follow the link and read thru it yourself to ensure I'm not hiding anything.

First they check Goku's PL
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2928-13/dragon-ball/chapter-279.html

Then Recoome attacks and Goku "disappears". No one but Vegeta was able to follow his movements and no one noticed his PL increased and decreased so rapidly:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-4/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-5/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-6/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-7/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-8/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

As Recoome charges up no one senses that Goku is the stronger of the two:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-10/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

Then Goku strikes and still no one senses he was stronger:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-11/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-12/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-2929-13/dragon-ball/chapter-280.html

That's enough for now to prove my point I think

idk how any of this proves bills power level changed before his final fight with goku.... also notice that everybody who powered up attacked their opponent. bills hasnt done any of that he let both goku and vegeta attack first. he didnt raise his power level until goke told him he was holding back.

none of your examples prove anything.

also where is 3% frieza?

Originally posted by yungz22
idk how any of this proves bills power level changed before his final fight with goku.... also notice that everybody who powered up attacked their opponent. bills hasnt done any of that he let both goku and vegeta attack first. he didnt raise his power level until goke told him he was holding back.

It's like you don't listen at all. YOU made the claim. It is up to YOU to prove it, not me to disprove it.

Here I'll even spell it out for you:

I claimed Vegeta made Beerus bleed. I proved it by directing you to to the blood.

You claimed "if Vegeta did hurt Beerus, that majkes him stronger than God Goku." You tried to hide this claim behind the "well you must believe this then" but I caught you. All you've done to try to back this up is ask me to disprove it. Not how it works. You need to provide proof that the absolute only reason Vegeta hurt Beerus was cuz he was stronger. You can't tho and therefore you've made a baseless claim. Just concede the point and move on already

Originally posted by yungz22
none of your examples prove anything.

You ask for the scans so I provided them. They prove people in DBZ can raise and lower their power without visably powering up. Just like I said

Originally posted by yungz22
also where is 3% frieza?

He's in the scan I provided. Also I said "estimated"

Originally posted by juggerman
It's like you don't listen at all. YOU made the claim. It is up to YOU to prove it, not me to disprove it.

Here I'll even spell it out for you:

I claimed Vegeta made Beerus bleed. I proved it by directing you to to the blood.

You claimed "if Vegeta did hurt Beerus, that majkes him stronger than God Goku." You tried to hide this claim behind the "well you must believe this then" but I caught you. All you've done to try to back this up is ask me to disprove it. Not how it works. You need to provide proof that the absolute only reason Vegeta hurt Beerus was cuz he was stronger. You can't tho and therefore you've made a baseless claim. Just concede the point and move on already

You ask for the scans so I provided them. They prove people in DBZ can raise and lower their power without visably powering up. Just like I said

He's in the scan I provided. Also I said "estimated"

i didnt make any claim....in order for your claim to be true then that would mean your saying vegeta is stronger than god goku...... you said bill raised his power level yet theres no proof that he did your examples of other people telling their oppoents that they are about to power up doesnt prove anyting..... bills stood there both times and let vegeta and god goku attack him there was no need for him to power up because he was already leagues stronger than both of them......bills could have beaen goku with =out powering up he just chose to because goku said he was holding back

Originally posted by yungz22
i didnt make any claim....in order for your claim to be true then that would mean your saying vegeta is stronger than god goku...... you said bill raised his power level yet theres no proof that he did your examples of other people telling their oppoents that they are about to power up doesnt prove anyting..... bills stood there both times and let vegeta and god goku attack him there was no need for him to power up because he was already leagues stronger than both of them......bills could have beaen goku with =out powering up he just chose to because goku said he was holding back

You did make a claim. In fact you just made it again right here:

Originally posted by yungz22
in order for your claim to be true then that would mean your saying vegeta is stronger than god goku

You claim that Vegeta had to be stronger than Goku to harm Beerus. That is exactly your claim

Originally posted by juggerman
You did make a claim. In fact you just made it again right here:

You claim that Vegeta had to be stronger than Goku to harm Beerus. That is exactly your claim

its not a claim it its just what your claim would mean.... if vegeta hurt bill and goku didnt then vegeta would have to be stronger than him.... we both know thats not the case so that"blood" thing your always spewing shit about should be disregarded

Originally posted by yungz22
its not a claim it its just what your claim would mean.... if vegeta hurt bill and goku didnt then vegeta would have to be stronger than him.... we both know thats not the case so that"blood" thing your always spewing shit about should be disregarded

Except there are a multitude of other reasons that it happened. So again you made a baseless claim