Physical Strength Contest: Superman VS Kurse VS Thor VS The Hulk

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He didn't have handcuffs on the ship, watch the movie...also he was never exposed to red sun.. You have literally shown you have no clue what you are talking about. Lmao😂

He was restrained to the table by metal handcuff looking things. Did you even watch the movie? I said very clearly he was exposed to Red Sun atmosphere.. which he was... the Doctor even comments that on the ship he's as powerful as a human. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how important the atmosphere is and how much strength just that can give a kryptonian. He was INSTANTLY able to break free once he breathed earth's air.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He was restrained to the table by metal handcuff looking things. Did you even watch the movie? I said very clearly he was exposed to Red Sun atmosphere.. which he was... the Doctor even comments that on the ship he's as powerful as a human. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt how important the atmosphere is and how much strength just that can give a kryptonian. He was INSTANTLY able to break free once he breathed earth's air.

Clearly. He was handcuffed on earth. With handcuffs. He was restrained on a table.

Anyways. The point I think you are trying to get across is Krptonians were very powerful people as far as DNA and genetics. However their environment weakened them to the strength of humans. On earth their genetics come out of hiding from our atmosphere, sun and gravity giving them god like powers.

We agree on that part.

This is incorrect, they're not "weakened" on Krypton, they're just normal/without powers since their solar cells can't utilize/convert Red Solar Radiation to super-powers.

But as far as being on Zod's ship:

"You're wasting your efforts. The strength you derived from your exposure to the earth's sun has been neutralized on our ship. Here, in this environment, you're as weak as a human." -Jax-Ur

Not sure why the fact that Superman gains his powers from Yellow Solar Radiation is a hard thing to grasp.

Originally posted by Robtard
This is incorrect, they're not "weakened" on Krypton, they're just normal/without powers since their solar cells can't utilize/convert Red Solar Radiation to super-powers.

But as far as being on Zod's ship:

"You're wasting your efforts. The strength you derived from your exposure to the earth's sun has been neutralized on our ship. Here, in this environment, you're as weak as a human." -Jax-Ur

Not sure why the fact that Superman gains his powers from Yellow Solar Radiation is a hard thing to grasp.

I've read vastly more superman comics than you even knew existed. Please spare me any talk about what I know about the character. I've never claimed he doesn't get power from the Sun. Show me any post where I say otherwise. What I'm saying is, Earth atmosphere is also very key to his strength. In a red sun atmosphere... He couldn't even break free and was as WEAK as a human. Upon breathing Earth atmosphere his strength INSTANTLY returned with NO exposure to Yellow Sun. There is NO getting around this canon fact. None.

You seem to be under the impression that unless a Kryptonian in near a yellow sun he's a basic human level. This couldn't be further from the truth, nor is that how the character was originated. The are weak as human on Krypton because of the atmosphere is severely limiting them. They can derive strength and power from an atmosphere alone as we see with Superman on Zod's ship. They don't need to be near a Yellow sun to have any powers. Atmosphere alone can grant them some. They just don't get their super super powers with Yellow Sun radiation. Kryptonians are naturally human level. They are human level LIVING under a red sun.. Why this is so hard to grasp is beyond me.

Oh lordy, the "I've read more comics" rant(you clearly haven't). Jor-El said he would change the ship atmospherics to that of a humans, do you think that wouldn't include switching off the Red Solar Radiation so Kal would get his powers back when he previously told Kal how the Earth's sun empowered him?

We've already covered this, you were wrong then and you're wrong now. Yellow Solar Radiation is the key to their powers and has been canon for a very long time:

Originally posted by Robtard
This isn't supported by the comics, while Superman's powers and the source of his powers have changed since the very beginning, for many decades now its been canon that "yellow solar radiation" is what powers him; without it, he is powerless. Red Solar radiation isn't "bad" for Kryptonians, it just doesn't grant them abilities.

Regular Superman wiki:

The source of Superman's powers has changed subtly over the course of his history. It was originally stated that Superman's abilities derived from his Kryptonian heritage, which made him eons more evolved than humans.[81] This was soon amended, with the source for the powers now based upon the establishment of Krypton's gravity as having been stronger than that of the Earth. This situation mirrors that of Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter. As Superman's powers increased, the implication that all Kryptonians had possessed the same abilities became problematic for writers, making it doubtful that a race of such beings could have been wiped out by something as trifling as an exploding planet. In part to counter this, the Superman writers established that Kryptonians, whose native star Rao had been red, possessed superpowers only under the light of a yellow sun.[116]

DC Comic Wikia:

Wanting him to reclaim the fullness in life denied him by the sterility of Kryptonian culture, his parents sent him to Earth, where exposure to the yellow sunlight would charge his cells into living solar batteries and gift him with incredible powers.

Superman Wikia:

When the Superman character was revised by John Byrne shortly after Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was decided to place restrictions on his abilities. This was designed to make it easier for writers to come up with suitable challenges for the hero, and to eliminate or reduce those powers that had become too sensational or unbelievable for modern audiences. Emphasis was placed on yellow sun energy as a source for the character's powers. Superman's origin story was altered so that his powers developed gradually as his body absorbed yellow sunlight, and stories such as the [b]Final Night series depicted the character gradually losing his powers when deprived of the sun's energy. When Superman's reserves of solar energy were depleted, as in Infinite Crisis or the Death of Superman story arcs, he required an extended period of time under a yellow sun, or some type of artificial solar enhancement in order to recharge.

The film MoS follows this for the most part. [/B]

Originally posted by Robtard
Oh lordy, the "I've read more comics" rant(you clearly haven't). Jor-El said he would change the ship atmospherics to that of a humans, do you think that wouldn't include switching off the Red Solar Radiation so Kal would get his powers back?

We've already covered this, you're wrong, Yellow Solar Radiation is the key to their powers and has been canon for a very long time:

This is movies only.. and we're talking about ReBoot Superman movie here. Now please post the passage in the movie that states Superman is like a Solar Battery?

HUH? What in the hell did you even say that made any kind of sense. He made the atmosphere like earth's .. and switched it from Krypton's. That's exactly what he did and why we KNOW atmosphere is a key to their strength and powers. This was made clear by the director slapping us in the face with that scene. Under a Red Sun Atmosphere he's like a human... with earth atmosphere (with no exposure to YSR) he immediately broke free. That's how key the atmosphere is to Superman. In case you didn't know... we're using the movie only.

Why are you bringing up the facts I ORIGINALLY brought up. you didn't even know Kryptonians were originally conceived. I brought that up. You going to confirm this and other rectons doesn't change the fact that I brought it up.

The yellow star is key to their powers the point is they have the power but it is dormant and inactive on their home world. Earths atmosphere, gravity and sun gives their body what it requires to become powerful. I think Jor El made it clear on earth he will be a god. Without his kryptonian genetics earths benefits would be useless.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is movies only..

LoL, dude. You're the one that brought in the comics:

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course they have powers without being near a yellow sun.. Their powers are just enhanced under a yellow sun.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're looking at it from a comic angle now, Clark keeps his powers when not in direct contact to yellow sun radiation since his body can store the energy like a battery, but he will eventually need to recharge.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The comic books are what these characters are based on... That is THE medium to look to when understanding their nature and history

See, you did.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Now please post the passage in the movie that states Superman is like a Solar Battery?

LOL, already covered that too:

"Kryptonians are also known to possess natural solar cells that allow them to process solar energy, which is what fuels their powers."

"Under their native Red sun, Kryptonians possess physical attributes similar to normal Humans. However, when exposed to solar radiation from a Yellow sun, Kryptonians gain superhuman abilities that greatly surpass those of humans and even most superhumans: Link

"Earth's sun is younger and brighter than Krypton's was. Your cells have drunk in its radiation, strengthening your muscles, your skin, your senses. Earth's gravity is weaker, yet its atmosphere is more nourishing. You've grown stronger here than I ever could have imagined. The only way to know how strong, is to keep testing your limits." - Jor-El MoS

"You're wasting your efforts. The strength you derived from your exposure to the earth's sun has been neutralized on our ship. Here, in this environment, you're as weak as a human." -Jax-Ur

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
HUH? What in the hell did you even say that made any kind of sense. He made the atmosphere like earth's .. and switched it from Krypton's. That's exactly what he did and why we KNOW atmosphere is a key to their strength and powers. This was made clear by the director slapping us in the face with that scene. Under a Red Sun Atmosphere he's like a human... with earth atmosphere (with no exposure to YSR) he immediately broke free. That's how key the atmosphere is to Superman. In case you didn't know... we're using the movie only.

Why are you bringing up the facts I ORIGINALLY brought up. you didn't even know Kryptonians were originally conceived. I brought that up. You going to confirm this and other rectons doesn't change the fact that I brought it up.

Because we know Kal/Krptonians under a Red Sun do not have powers; why Kal could be restrained.

LoL, pretending like I didn't know and you did. Lousy tactics.

Of course I brought it up.. Because I've always disagreed with the notion that comics or other mediums are totally thrown out the window and it's movies only. I've been very clear on this point. That said, I've been routinely overruled on this point time and time again. So I figured I would play by the rules and ask when this was stated in the movie 😉 Now please show the line.

You posting wiki quotes isn't proof. I'm asking for the line in the movie that states he's like a solar battery

Lastly, there is no getting around the indisputable evidence that atmosphere ALSO plays a key role in strength and powers of a kryptonian. As soon as he took a breath of earth atmosphere (while totally away from YSR) he instantly broke free. The scene couldn't be any more clear. YSR gives them even more powers i.e. HV.. sun dipping and strength etc.. However, via the movies earth atmosphere plays a key role as well.

LoL, dude.

Blatantly ignoring that I posted direct movie quotes from Jor-El and Jax-Ur before and above. LoL

Already covered that above too. Unless you think Kal can have powers while under Red Solar Radiation (the ship) if he can breath in Earth's atmosphere? Which is another lol.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
that is totally and completely your pure conjecture. It CLEARLY does.. He couldn't break the handcuffs at all. He was as strong as a normal human. If he still had solar power... it would've been combating the Red Sun and he would've been able to break free of mere restraints. He couldn't. He was clearly severely weakened under a red sun atmosphere. AS SOON AS.. He breathed earth Atmosphere.... he instantly broke free.

Further, not one time in the movie was it mentioned that Superman is a solar battery. That is a comic book thing. So to use speculation about why something happened.. and base that on something that was never even said in the movies is a HUGE stretch.

It didn't take him 33 years to fly... He couldn't flown well before then.. He just never wanted to test his limits or feared to do so.

That's where you're totally wrong.. The world engine feat proves my point further. It was merely making the earth atmosphere likeKrypton.. but it clearly had a long way to go. He was obviously coughing and struggling with it.. but luckily he still had solar power to draw on.. The sun was still out. This shows that some clear atmosphere and solar power can combat Red Sun atmosphere poisoning. He was able to get the job done. When he had no solar energy to draw on or semi clear atmosphere to nourish him.. He couldn't even break free of cuffs.

What are you talking about, Superman was never under a red sun. Jor-El clearly says the sun is what strengthens his muscles, ergo that's where his physical strength comes from. The Kryptonian atmosphere was poisoning him because his body had never adapted to it. The other Kryptonians had comparable strength to Kal even though they were breathing Kryptonian air, so that proves the sun is what gives them their physical power.

"Your cells have drunken its radiation, strengthtening your muscles." It's right there. Also, Superman doesn't lose his powers when not in direct sunlight, so his body clearly stores it.

And? The point is that Zod had better focus.

Yeah, nobody said the solar radiation wouldn't help him. The fact is that he was poisoned by the air. And wtf is a "Red Sun atmosphere"?

What we do know is that the atosphere on the ship over powers their powers. For example Lois and Jor El killing kryptonians on the ship.

We do know that when Jor El changed the atmosphere to earth, Clark immediately gained his powers back.

So what does that tell us.

Clark's powers where inactive under the ships environment until changed and the Krptonians were not. That tells us either major plot whole which leads to speculation that his 33 years on earth kept him plenty strong and the time on Zods ship temporarily weakened him. Zods crew had not been on earth long enough to have sufficient reserves.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, dude.

Blatantly ignoring that I posted direct movie quotes from Jor-El and Jax-Ur before and above. LoL

Already covered that above too. Unless you think Kal can have powers while under Red Solar Radiation (the ship) if he can breath in Earth's atmosphere? Which is another lol.

Not one quote you listed calls him a solar battery at all. Post the quote that does.

It's so simple it alludes. In a red sun atmosphere he's totally powerless and like a human. The moment the ships atmosphere is changed... He regains his strength. To even pretend that Kryptonians don't gain some power from the atmosphere alone is bordering on retarded by now. Clearly, the atmosphere gave him strength enough to escape and it had nothing to do with YSR

Originally posted by Psychotron
What are you talking about, Superman was never under a red sun. Jor-El clearly says the sun is what strengthens his muscles, ergo that's where his physical strength comes from. The Kryptonian atmosphere was poisoning him because his body had never adapted to it. The other Kryptonians had comparable strength to Kal even though they were breathing Kryptonian air, so that proves the sun is what gives them their physical power.

"Your cells have drunken its radiation, strengthtening your muscles." It's right there. Also, Superman doesn't lose his powers when not in direct sunlight, so his body clearly stores it.

And? The point is that Zod had better focus.

Yeah, nobody said the solar radiation wouldn't help him. The fact is that he was poisoned by the air. And wtf is a "Red Sun atmosphere"?

They weren't as strong as Kal on their ship.. and NO point did they even have a fight for you to prove your claim. They were just as weak as a human on that ship as well. It's flat out stated that Kryptonians in a red sun environment (atmosphere included) they are as weak as a human. Thus on a ship mirroring Krypton's environment they were weak as a human. The MOMMENT he breath earth atmosphere.. He breaks free.. No YELLOW SUN PRESENT.. yet he regained strength well well beyond a human and casually broke free of his restraints

I know the line very well.. I posted the video of it. Then he goes on to say Earth atmosphere is more nourishing than Krypton's in the very next breath. Clearly atmosphere is also important. How could you miss this part slapping you in the face?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not one quote you listed calls him a solar battery at all. Post the quote that does.

It's so simple it alludes. In a red sun atmosphere he's totally powerless and like a human. The moment the ships atmosphere is changed... He regains his strength. To even pretend that Kryptonians don't gain some power from the atmosphere alone is bordering on retarded by now. Clearly, the atmosphere gave him strength enough to escape and it had nothing to do with YSR

LoL. Keep ignoring:

"Earth's sun is younger and brighter than Krypton's was. Your cells have drunk in its radiation, strengthening your muscles, your skin, your senses. Earth's gravity is weaker, yet its atmosphere is more nourishing. You've grown stronger here than I ever could have imagined. The only way to know how strong, is to keep testing your limits." - Jor-El MoS

"You're wasting your efforts. The strength you derived from your exposure to the earth's sun has been neutralized on our ship. Here, in this environment, you're as weak as a human." -Jax-Ur

"Red sun atmosphere", do you even know what you're talking about. Seems you don't. There's Krypton's atmosphere and then Krypton's red sun . They're not one thing. If Zod's plan worked, Earth would have been kryptoformed to have Krypton's atmosphere but it still would have been under a yellow sun. See.

Do tell how Faora regained her super-strength then when the atmospherics changed, yet she was breathing a Kryptonian atmosphere via mask and somehow the [Earth]Sun's radiation didn't get into the ship? LOL! And before you go "prove the Kryptonians weren't powered up on the ship!" again, we already covered that, Lois blasted one and they didn't have the strength to tear through doors to get at her until after Jor-El messed with the ship and we for sure know Kal wasn't powered up.

Rob the point is the power is dormate until activated by the proper conditions. That being earth.

Their genetic makeup was extremely powerful alone to live under the harsh conditions of Krypton and not die.

Having perfect conditions on earth exploded and unleashed their power within their cells that was busy dealing with Kryptons harsh conditions. That kept them alive there, but on earth once unburdened with that task, they became "like gods."

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL. Keep ignoring:

"Earth's sun is younger and brighter than Krypton's was. Your cells have drunk in its radiation, strengthening your muscles, your skin, your senses. Earth's gravity is weaker, yet its atmosphere is more nourishing. You've grown stronger here than I ever could have imagined. The only way to know how strong, is to keep testing your limits." - Jor-El MoS

"You're wasting your efforts. The strength you derived from your exposure to the earth's sun has been neutralized on our ship. Here, in this environment, you're as weak as a human." -Jax-Ur

"Red sun atmosphere", do you even know what you're talking about. Seems you don't. There's Krypton's atmosphere and then Krypton's red sun . They're not one thing. If Zod's plan worked, Earth would have been kryptoformed to have Krypton's atmosphere but it still would have been under a yellow sun. See.

Do tell how Faora regained her super-strength then when the atmospherics changed, yet she was breathing a Kryptonian atmosphere via mask and somehow the [Earth]Sun's radiation didn't get into the ship? LOL! And before you go "prove the Kryptonians weren't powered up on the ship!" again, we already covered that, Lois blasted one and they didn't have the strength to tear through doors to get at her until after Jor-El messed with the ship and we for sure know Kal wasn't powered up.

that's just the point they are two TOTALLY separate things... YSR and the Atmosphere.. Clearly both have an impact on their powers. There is no getting around this fact. Simply breathing earth atmosphere with no YSR present or to absorb.. He instantly regained his strength. So clearly they are mutually inclusive things. Are you still disputing that atmosphere plays a role in their powers not just YSR?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Rob the point is the power is dormate until activated by the proper conditions. That being earth.

Their genetic makeup was extremely powerful alone to live under the harsh conditions of Krypton and not die.

Having perfect conditions on earth exploded and unleashed their power within their cells that was busy dealing with Kryptons harsh conditions. That kept them alive there, but on earth once unburdened with that task, they became "like gods."

But it's not. Kryptonians have the capability to gain powers, if certain conditions are met. Not: they have powers normally unless those powers are robbed from them.

Yeah, they're denser. Harsh to humans, not harsh to Kryptonians who evolved there. The bottom of the ocean is "harsh" to humans, since we're not adapted to that environment either.

You're looking at it backwards now. They were perfectly fine/normal on Krypton, it wasn't a "burden", it was their natural environment in which they have no powers due to not having exposure to YSR.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
that's just the point they are two TOTALLY separate things... YSR and the Atmosphere.. Clearly both have an impact on their powers. There is no getting around this fact. Simply breathing earth atmosphere with no YSR present or to absorb.. He instantly regained his strength. So clearly they are mutually inclusive things. Are you still disputing that atmosphere plays a role in their powers not just YSR?

LoL, dude. You're the one that coined "red sun atmosphere" like it was one thing/a thing. Now you're taking what I said.

You're also still ignoring Jor-El and Jax-Ur's lines about Earth's sun.

Still waiting on that answer about Faora.

Still waiting on the quote about Solar battery

Still waiting on our admission that atmosphere plays a significant role in their powers not just YSR. We see this undeniably displayed on Zod's ship once Kal starts breathing earth atmosphere.