Ivan Drago vs Apollo from Rocky II

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You left out the part where I said in a couple punches.. Ya know that key point of the sentence. Yet, Creed didn't go down after 1 or 2 or 2 or 4 punches with now an average of 1850... He probably took about 60 punches of 1850 PROVING he wasn't punching at that level. Or even 100 or even 850. Thanks for proving my case while trying to change what I actually said. Always do my work for me by owning yourself Robbie.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well you're wrong again, having watched 85% of Rocky IV last night, Apollo took 21-22 punches (mix of face/body) in the first round and 17 punches in the second round.

So applying maths:

21-22 + 17 = 38-39 punches

38-39 isn't 60; it's not even "about 60"

I would need to "own myself" to ever be "owned", as you clearly can't do it and why you're so angry

I like how KT basically Just proved that he hasn't actually seen Rocky IV.

Yeah, it is pretty sad.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I like how KT basically Just proved that he hasn't actually seen Rocky IV.

👆

KT, despite your insults and rage at me, I'm willing to burn you a copy of Rocky IV and mail it to you at my expense

#robtardiskindness

Originally posted by Robtard
So you're saying he had more muscles, but they were smaller? How did he grow new muscles? Like seven new pectorals or something? LOL!

But yeah, back to topic: Happened to have watched about half of Rocky III and 80% of Rocky IV last night; in Rocky IV, in the prefight dressing room Apollo says something like:

"I've never been in better shape in my life. I'm stronger and faster than I've ever been." -Apollo Creed IV

So it seems the previous notion by some that Drago murdering Apollo means nothing because Apollo was a washed-up chump was false

The difference would be that Apollo didn't have years and years of hand picked fights so he could easily win while everyone told him he was the best, making his head swell (a plot point of Rocky III). Apollo actually earned his 46-1 record and his words carried weight then

I totally disagree with your statement. The context of three was that Rocky lost his hungry. We have no idea if Apollo fights were hand pick. Seeing how him and his manager picked Rocky in part I, I would be inclined to say they were like most managers do anyway.

Apollo in part IV was 7 to 9 years older than the his record. He started off in the movie talking about how much he miss the days of fighting. He wasn't actively fighting or training.

He was delusional about his state as a fighter. That is clear from the movie. I didn't know you felt he was more in shape in IV then he was in II.

Why are there so many racists in this thread? 😬

Originally posted by Kotor3
I totally disagree with your statement. The context of three was that Rocky lost his hungry. We have no idea if Apollo fights were hand pick. Seeing how him and his manager picked Rocky in part I, I would be inclined to say they were like most managers do anyway.

Apollo in part IV was 7 to 9 years older than the his record. He started off in the movie talking about how much he miss the days of fighting. He wasn't actively fighting or training.

He was delusional about his state as a fighter. That is clear from the movie. I didn't know you felt he was more in shape in IV then he was in II.

So now your tactic is to smear Apollo's awesome record and claim he didn't work for it? Well then, proof of this? Robtard's not going to stand by and let you smear Mr. Creed

You need to watch Rocky (1976) again though. Only reason Rocky was given a shot is because the guy who Apollo was going to fight dropped out unexpectedly, no other top contenders where ready and time was running out. Apollo picked Balboa because he liked the sound of his nickname, the "Italian Stallion", thought it would be good marketing

"I wrecked everything by not thinking for myself. I mean, why couldn't Mickey tell me where I really at right from the start? He didn't have to carry me and lie to me and make me think I was better than I really was when I wasn't." -Rocky III

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why are there so many racists in this thread? 😬

It's rather appalling how they all come out of their holes to bash the black man

Originally posted by Robtard
The difference would be that Apollo didn't have years and years of hand picked fights so he could easily win while everyone told him he was the best, making his head swell (a plot point of Rocky III). Apollo actually earned his 46-1 record and his words carried weight then

The former sounds like Mayweather.

Originally posted by Robtard
So now your tactic is to smear Apollo's awesome record and claim he didn't work for it? Well then, proof of this? Robtard's not going to stand by and let you smear Mr. Creed

You need to watch Rocky (1976) again though. Only reason Rocky was given a shot is because the guy who Apollo was going to fight dropped out unexpectedly, no other top contenders where ready and time was running out. Apollo picked Balboa because he liked the sound of his nickname, the "Italian Stallion", thought it would be good marketing

"I wrecked everything by not thinking for myself. I mean, why couldn't Mickey tell me where I really at right from the start? He didn't have to carry me and lie to me and make me think I was better than I really was when I wasn't." -Rocky III

Since you like to misrepresent and post quotes that you feel will support your argument, while acting as if no one else saw the Rocky movies but you, here are some quotes for you:
Nicoli Koloff: [at the Creed-Drago press conference] You are not very realistic, are you, Mr. Creed?
Apollo: Now who is this guy? Where did you come from?
Nicoli Koloff: You can box, yes. But you are far too old to think that you can beat Drago.
Apollo: Is that a fact?
Nicoli Koloff: Yes. And it could be a painful one!

Rocky III:
Mickey: No, he ain't just another fighter! This guy is a wrecking machine! And he's hungry! Hell, you ain't been hungry since you won that belt.
Mickey: They was hand-picked!
Rocky Balboa: Setups?
Mickey: Nah, they wasn't setups. They was good fighters, but they wasn't killers like this guy. He'll knock you to tomorrow, Rock!
Mickey: Because the beating that you got from Apollo should've killed you, kid. It didn't. It was my job to keep you winning and to keep you healthy.
Rocky Balboa: You really don't think I got nothing left do you?
Mickey: Well, Rock, let's put it this way. Now, three years ago you was supernatural. You was hard and you was nasty and you had this cast-iron jaw but then the worst thing happened to you, that could happen to any fighter. You got civilized. But don't worry kid. You know, presidents retire, horses retire, Man-o-war retired. They put him out to stud. That's what you should've done, retired.

No setups for Rocky and Apollo best days were clearly behind him.

So you'd side with a communist over a black man? 😬

Originally posted by Kotor3
Smear Apollo’s record? LOL. That would be you wants us to take Apollo’s comment literally that he was in the best shape of his life in Rocky IV. You know when he was well over 40 years of age.

Since you like to misrepresent and post quotes that you feel will support your argument, while acting as if no one else saw the Rocky movies but you, here are some quotes for you:
Nicoli Koloff: [at the Creed-Drago press conference] You are not very realistic, are you, Mr. Creed?
Apollo: Now who is this guy? Where did you come from?
Nicoli Koloff: You can box, yes. [B]But you are far too old to think that you can beat Drago.
Apollo: Is that a fact?
Nicoli Koloff: Yes. And it could be a painful one!

Rocky III:
Mickey: No, he ain't just another fighter! This guy is a wrecking machine! And he's hungry! Hell, you ain't been hungry since you won that belt.
Mickey: They was hand-picked!
Rocky Balboa: Setups?
Mickey: Nah, they wasn't setups. They was good fighters, but they wasn't killers like this guy. He'll knock you to tomorrow, Rock!
Mickey: Because the beating that you got from Apollo should've killed you, kid. It didn't. It was my job to keep you winning and to keep you healthy.
Rocky Balboa: You really don't think I got nothing left do you?
Mickey: Well, Rock, let's put it this way. Now, three years ago you was supernatural. You was hard and you was nasty and you had this cast-iron jaw but then the worst thing happened to you, that could happen to any fighter. You got civilized. But don't worry kid. You know, presidents retire, horses retire, Man-o-war retired. They put him out to stud. That's what you should've done, retired.

No setups for Rocky and Apollo best days were clearly behind him. [/B]

You claimed that Apollo was carried like Rocky and didn't earn his epic 46-1 record, glad you backed down now

What are you, a commie or something? Do you realy think a USSR marketing guy knows more about Apollo than Apollo? He was also talking with the secret knowledge that Drago was a roid-injecting cheater. BTW, Apollo was about 43 when he fought Drago, that's not "well over 40", that's barely over 40. Rocky's only about 3 years younger than Apollo. George Foreman was almost 50 when he retired for the second time and he didn't have the benefit of being fictional

Those quotes don't disprove the plot-point of Rocky III where Balboa had it easy defending his title due to Mickey's machinations. Mickey' outright says "It was my job to keep you winning and to keep you healthy." Thanks for proving my point; Robtard owes you one 👆

Drago, pretty easily.

Apollo also said something along the line of being in the best shape of his life right before he fought Drago. Take that for what you will.

Originally posted by Robtard
You claimed that Apollo was carried like Rocky and didn't earn his epic 46-1 record, glad you backed down now

What are you, a commie or something? Do you realy think a USSR marketing guy knows more about Apollo than Apollo? He was also talking with the secret knowledge that Drago was a roid-injecting cheater. BTW, Apollo was about 43 when he fought Drago, that's not "well over 40", that's barely over 40. Rocky's only about 3 years younger than Apollo. George Foreman was almost 50 when he retired for the second time and he didn't have the benefit of being fictional

Those quotes don't disprove the plot-point of Rocky III where Balboa had it easy defending his title due to Mickey's machinations. Mickey' outright says "It was my job to keep you winning and to keep you healthy." Thanks for proving my point; Robtard owes you one 👆

You comment as if there were fighters like Lang all around. Lang was special. Context - Lang knew Mickey was dogging him and Mickey new Rocky didn't have the hungry or drive anymore.

You want to equate that to easy fights when Micky outright states they were good fighters and were not setups. You can continue to ignore statements and context that destroys your argument all you wish it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.

George Foreman does not fight like Ali and his punching power is by far one of the greatest to ever grace the boxing world. Using him to apply to Apollo is almost comical.

I'm just glad you backed down

Lang was "special" now? So special he didn't last a full three rounds with a montaged-Rocky

Film quotes support what I said moreso than you, deal with it

The point which you missed: Being a fighter in your early 40's doesn't automaticallly mean you're a washed up turd, as you seem to think, in both reality and the fictional Rockyverse

I'm not sure what I backed down from?

As for Lang being special and the quotes supporting you more, lets see. Is Lang special? What do Apollo and Mickey say:

Apollo Creed: You thought I was tough? This chump will kill you!
Apollo Creed: If you stand toe-to-toe with this bum, he'll kill you. It doesn't take a man to stand there and get your head beat off...! He's just a man, Rock, so be MORE man than him! Go get him; Eye Of the Tiger!
Mickey:
Because you can't win, Rock! This guy will kill you to death inside of three rounds!
Mickey:
Nah, they wasn't setups. They was good fighters, but they wasn't killers like this guy. He'll knock you to tomorrow, Rock!

Apollo: Because I'm the best, and you need somebody to teach you different.
Rocky: Why?
Apollo: To be honest with you, I don't think you could pull it off without me, Rock.

Apollo and Mickey disagree.

As for the quotes supporting you more, let’s see? Here is are some quotes:

Rocky: Those fights weren't right. They weren't, Adrian. I never fought anybody who was in their prime. There was always some angle to hold on to the title longer than I should have had it. I mean do you understand what I'm saying here?
Adrian: I understand, but you've got to understand that he loved you and that was his job--protecting you!
Rocky: Look, but that protecting don't help nothing. It only makes things worse. You wake up after a few years thinking you're a winner, but you're not. You're really a loser. So we wouldn't have had the title as long. So what?! At least it would've been real Adrian.
Adrian: It was real!
Rocky: Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are! I don't believe in myself no more don't you understand? When a fighter don't believe, that's it! He's finished, it's over, that's it.
Adrian: THAT'S NOT IT!!
Rocky: That is it!
Adrian: Why don't you tell me the truth?!
Rocky: What are you putting me through Adrian?! You wanna know the truth? The truth is I don't want to lose what I've got. In the beginning I didn't care about what happened to me. I'd go in the ring, I'd get busted up, I didn't care! But now there's you, there's the kid. I don't want to lose what I've got!
Adrian: What do we have that can't be replaced? WHAT?! A house, we've got cars, we've got MONEY! We got everything but the truth. WHAT'S THE TRUTH, DAMN IT?!
Rocky: I'M AFRAID! ALL RIGHT?! YOU WANT TO HEAR ME SAY IT? You want to break me down? All right, I'm afraid. For the first time in my life, I'm afraid.
Adrian: I'm afraid too. There's nothing wrong with being afraid.
Rocky: There is. For me, there is.
Adrian: Why? You're human aren't you?
Rocky: Look, I don't know what I am. All I know is I'm a liar, and because of that Mickey ain't here no more.
Adrian: You didn't push him into anything! He was a grown man and he did what he had to do! And you have no right to feel guilty for what happened. You don't! You were a champion, and you did what you were expected to do, and you did what I and everybody else thought you should do. And you wanna tell me that those fights weren't real, that you were carried? Well I don't believe it! But it doesn't matter what I believe because you're the one that's got to carry that fear around inside you, afraid that everybody's going to take things away and afraid that you're going to be remembered as a coward, that you're not a man anymore. Well, none of it's true! But it doesn't matter if I tell you. It doesn't matter, because you're the one that's gotta settle it. Get rid of it! Because when all the smoke has cleared and everyone's through chanting your name, it's just going to be us. And you can't live like this. We can't live like this. Cause it's going to bother you for the rest of your life. Look what it's doing to you now. Apollo thinks you can do it, so do I. But you gotta want to do it for the right reasons. Not for the guilt over Mickey, not for the people, not for the title, not for money or me, but for you. Just you. Just you alone.

So Rocky fights were real, no setups, good fighters, but not killers like Lang who Rocky was scared of. I do not see the support for your arguments at all. But do what you do best, hand pick the quotes you feel best support your argument.

IOW, Drago would beat this version of Apollo.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I'm not sure what I backed down from?

As for Lang being special and the quotes supporting you more, lets see. Is Lang special? What do Apollo and Mickey say:

Apollo Creed: You thought I was tough? This chump will kill you!
Apollo Creed: If you stand toe-to-toe with this bum, he'll kill you. It doesn't take a man to stand there and get your head beat off...! He's just a man, Rock, so be MORE man than him! Go get him; Eye Of the Tiger!
Mickey:
Because you can't win, Rock! This guy will kill you to death inside of three rounds!
Mickey:
Nah, they wasn't setups. They was good fighters, but they wasn't killers like this guy. He'll knock you to tomorrow, Rock!

Apollo: Because I'm the best, and you need somebody to teach you different.
Rocky: Why?
Apollo: To be honest with you, I don't think you could pull it off without me, Rock.

[B]Apollo and Mickey disagree.

As for the quotes supporting you more, let’s see? Here is are some quotes:

Rocky: Those fights weren't right. They weren't, Adrian. I never fought anybody who was in their prime. There was always some angle to hold on to the title longer than I should have had it. I mean do you understand what I'm saying here?
Adrian: I understand, but you've got to understand that he loved you and that was his job--protecting you!
Rocky: Look, but that protecting don't help nothing. It only makes things worse. You wake up after a few years thinking you're a winner, but you're not. You're really a loser. So we wouldn't have had the title as long. So what?! At least it would've been real Adrian.
Adrian: It was real!
Rocky: Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are! I don't believe in myself no more don't you understand? When a fighter don't believe, that's it! He's finished, it's over, that's it.
Adrian: THAT'S NOT IT!!
Rocky: That is it!
Adrian: Why don't you tell me the truth?!
Rocky: What are you putting me through Adrian?! You wanna know the truth? The truth is I don't want to lose what I've got. In the beginning I didn't care about what happened to me. I'd go in the ring, I'd get busted up, I didn't care! But now there's you, there's the kid. I don't want to lose what I've got!
Adrian: What do we have that can't be replaced? WHAT?! A house, we've got cars, we've got MONEY! We got everything but the truth. WHAT'S THE TRUTH, DAMN IT?!
Rocky: I'M AFRAID! ALL RIGHT?! YOU WANT TO HEAR ME SAY IT? You want to break me down? All right, I'm afraid. For the first time in my life, I'm afraid.
Adrian: I'm afraid too. There's nothing wrong with being afraid.
Rocky: There is. For me, there is.
Adrian: Why? You're human aren't you?
Rocky: Look, I don't know what I am. All I know is I'm a liar, and because of that Mickey ain't here no more.
Adrian: You didn't push him into anything! He was a grown man and he did what he had to do! And you have no right to feel guilty for what happened. You don't! You were a champion, and you did what you were expected to do, and you did what I and everybody else thought you should do. And you wanna tell me that those fights weren't real, that you were carried? Well I don't believe it! But it doesn't matter what I believe because you're the one that's got to carry that fear around inside you, afraid that everybody's going to take things away and afraid that you're going to be remembered as a coward, that you're not a man anymore. Well, none of it's true! But it doesn't matter if I tell you. It doesn't matter, because you're the one that's gotta settle it. Get rid of it! Because when all the smoke has cleared and everyone's through chanting your name, it's just going to be us. And you can't live like this. We can't live like this. Cause it's going to bother you for the rest of your life. Look what it's doing to you now. Apollo thinks you can do it, so do I. But you gotta want to do it for the right reasons. Not for the guilt over Mickey, not for the people, not for the title, not for money or me, but for you. Just you. Just you alone.

So Rocky fights were real, no setups, good fighters, but not killers like Lang who Rocky was scared of. I do not see the support for your arguments at all. But do what you do best, hand pick the quotes you feel best support your argument. [/B]

All these quotes support what I've been saying 👆

Apollo knows about his own capabilities. Check!

Lang got his ass handed to him in under three rounds cos he's a one trick poney. Check!

Rocky had it easy after Rocky II. Check!