Originally posted by Robtard
So it's:'Drago can't punch his average of 1850psi'
'Drago would just be too tired to punch his average'
'Drago held back due to fear/apprehension'
Would really like it if you could substantiate these claims with actual film proof, KT. Cos if you watch the fight, Drago is like a man obsessed; going all out even in the later rounds trying his best to down Balboa and stop his fellow Soviets from taunting him with jabs of "little dick Drago"
Robbie... I've already listed the things you have no proof of and that hasn't stopped you for claiming them. I'm not the one claiming superhuman total shifts of characters in order to accept your premise and conclusion. One has to suspend belief and totally change the characters in order to come to
1. Apollo is prime in his mid 40's and ages slower than everybody in existence
2. Apollo durability someone magically increases with age
3. Apollo is in better shape fighting an exhibition he didn't take seriously or train long for as he was as HW champion of the world in his actual prime
4. Rocky also is prime in his early 40's and ages slower than everybody in existence
5. Rocky durability also increases with age unlike anybody else in existence
6. Drago is the toughest fighter Rocky ever faced while only being an amateur and never beating a single professional in his life, let alone top contenders and champions in their prime
7. Drago can punch with an average of 1850 psi during an actual fight just like he can in a set environment after shooting up
8.. Drago can still punch at that level even while in a long prolonged fight taking damage but can still punch just as hard as he can while perfectly fresh, which again is different than any other human in existence.
These things you all had to make up in order for the entire premise of rocky and it's characters to suddenly DRAMATICALLY change course. Instead of the simple and neat approach of... Rocky nor Apollo were prime for Rocky 4, but Rocky turned back the clock one last time for a great performance while highly motivated. That explains what happens easily and simply. Instead of making up all these thing never once stated or shown in the movie.
I don't need to.. You guys proved my case for me. You said Drago was his toughest fighter. Well if he was, then he'd grasp the simple and basic concept you learn early on... Never get caught coming forward punching with all you have cause you can get countered and KO'd. It's very basic. So Drago being the best ever according to you guys, so thus he would understand this concept very well. You guys proved it. Do you think somebody is as fresh in mile 26 of a marathon as they are for mile 1? Do you think a boxer gets more tired punching in a set environment at a stationary target or would he get more tired in a actual fight throwing way more punches while taking damage to the body and face? That's basic logic, the proof is in the pudding. You might as well ask me to prove the earth orbits the sun. Basic knowledge. Unless of course you're now claiming Drago never tires (even though we visibly see him way more tired and weak during the later stages of the fight) If so, that's another unproven claim.
I never said he wasn't trying, he was trying to finish him, but you dont' have the same strength s you do early on. Even after one round you're not as fresh. Sure, you're trying and people can get KO'd in later rounds but that's not because they are just as fresh as they were in round one.
No it's not at all, all of that is EASILY explained by Drago not being able to hit like that in an actual fight (common knowledge and sense) and Rocky turning back the clock. Do you seem Robbie all that is easily explained on how it happened in two short sentences. I don't need to make up things never stated or even implied. I don't need to change an entire characters make up from totally based in realism to superhuman with not one quote from the director saying that was his intention. I don't need to do any of that. Rocky simply turned back the clock for one last great performance. It's really that easy. What you say is supported by the film, I can even easier say what I claim I supported by the film
Originally posted by juggerman
Question for you KT. If Drago can hit over twice as hard as the average boxer in a fixed setting, shouldn't he be able to hit twice as hard as them in a fight? Or at least close to it?
Who's to say.. He may be able to get off some punches twice as hard as his foe, but it would be few and far between. You're trained not to do so as a boxer. So this is something Drago would clearly be aware of "Rocky's toughest foe" like some are claiming. I believe Rocky's toughest foe was Apollo and it's not all that close really. Also, you're forgetting that even if he could (which he wouldn't be able to and certainly not on average) Rocky as an ACTUAL champion with a professional record and star of the movie who had the best trainer ever for him in the Rockyverse someone didn't train him to roll with punches? Even the slightest of head movements can decrease the power of a punch. So now we have to suspend reality again and go.. nah Rocky didn't roll or use angles at all he just took punches head on. It's amazing how subtle a roll can look on slow motion but how effective it is. Yet, somehow rocky never learned this... nah.
Point is, who knows how hard he can punch in an actual fight. They don't know either. But to claim he can punch with an average of 1850 psi during an actual fight for the entirety of the fight... just like he could on a stationary target and fresh just after shooting up is absurd. Don't you agree?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No it's not at all, all of that is EASILY explained by Drago not being able to hit like that in an actual fight (common knowledge and sense) and Rocky turning back the clock. Do you seem Robbie all that is easily explained on how it happened in two short sentences. I don't need to make up things never stated or even implied. I don't need to change an entire characters make up from totally based in realism to superhuman with not one quote from the director saying that was his intention. I don't need to do any of that. Rocky simply turned back the clock for one last great performance. It's really that easy. What you say is supported by the film, I can even easier say what I claim I supported by the film
Yet you do. It's explicitly shown that Drago's average (not greatest) punch is at 1850psi. you claim: "no, he can't actually do it", despite shown and spoken proof to the contrary
As far as your claims that my claims are unsupported, that is BS. As just one example: we have two showings of how fighters in the Rockyverse improve with age, yes, they improve with age. 1) Apollo "being in the best shape" of his life at 43 and 2) Rocky at 40 going beast mode and maxing out in uber manliness in order to defeat a super-soviet
So it seems the alpha-males in the Rockyverse are like vampires, wizards and dragons, they only become more powerful with age
Originally posted by Robtard
Yet you do. It's explicitly shown that Drago's average (not greatest) punch is at 1850psi. you claim: "no, he can't actually do it", despite shown and spoken proof to the contraryAs far as your claims that my claims are unsupported, that is BS. As just one example: we have two showings of how fighters in the Rockyverse improve with age, yes, they improve with age. 1) Apollo "being in the best shape" of his life at 43 and 2) Rocky at 40 going beast mode and maxing out in uber manliness in order to defeat a super-soviet
So it seems the alpha-males in the Rockyverse are like vampires, wizards and dragons, they only become more powerful with age
I'm unclear if you grasp this concept yet, because it certainly doesn't seem so. It's explicitly shown in a SET environment that he can punch that hard against a non moving and rolling target. There isn't one scene or shred of proof he can do so in an actual fight. Why do you keep saying there is. Please post the FIGHT scene where he punches like that on Average
Wrong again big buddy, that isn't supported at all. Not even in the least. Apollo was clearly boasting, something we literally seen all the time in combat sports. Do you not agree this is a regular thing before the fight? So why are you taking it so literally? This is common place. Use some common sense Rob, he's not prime IN HIS MID 40's.. HAVING BEEN RETIRED FOR OVER 5 YEARS.. WHILE NOT FIGHITNG HW PROFESSIONALS OR TRAINING TO FIGHT THEM REGULARLY. It's not possible to be prime or in the best shape with those things listed. Not even close to possible. He was simple boasting and acting like all was okay. Did you believe he was fine when he told Rocky he was okay and not stop the fight? Did you think Apollo was fine when he put his hand up to his wife saying he's fine? Was he telling the truth when he said Rocky wouldn't last past the first round in Rocky 2? Apollo was a boaster throughout the entire series. This is common place for him. Use common sense rob, he couldn't be prime nor in the best shape of his life considering the circumstances
A fighter going beat mode for one last great performance is common place in combat sports... Nothing out of the ordinary. We don't need to suspend belief and common sense for it to fit neatly do we Robbie? We can look at Corbett vs. Jeffries... Ali vs. Foreman... Frazier for the 3rd Ali fight. Louis vs. Walcott no. 2... Charles vs. Marciano... Holyfield vs. Lewis No. 2... Ali vs. Norton (all three of them really)... Foreman vs. Moore That's not even getting into the lower divisions and listing SRR vs. Fulmer or Turpin or even Maxim.. nor SRL vs. Hagler or Morales vs. Pac 1... We can list fights like Couture vs. Tim Sylvia... Big Nog vs. Schaub.. hell even Helio vs. Santana... All these fights illustrate what someone can do past their prime and turn in a great performance nobody expected. No need to suspend belief or logic here Robbie, that's simply what Rocky did.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiAh, I do love how butthurt you still are after the ass-pounding I gave you in that thread, by the way.
Should we list the times Sauron was killed and had to come back like a weak feeb? Point is, again you can get around the fact that Gothmog lead the battles when they were both around most of the time and gothmog beat better people. Beating Feanor is greater than anything Sauron has ever done. Sh1t, Feanor would curb the two Kings who beat Sauron, I mean literally curb them. Yeah, Gothmog killed that guy.
But no, Feanor has no feats on par with Luthien, who Sauron knocked out with a glance. It is within the realm of reason to say that Sauron could similarly defeat Gothmog with a glance.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Ah, I do love how butthurt you still are after the ass-pounding I gave you in that thread, by the way.But no, Feanor has no feats on par with Luthien, who Sauron knocked out with a glance. It is within the realm of reason to say that Sauron could similarly defeat Gothmog with a glance.
Your humor does amuse me, even if your stupidity annoys me at times. So are you suggesting that Elendil or Gil-galad could defeat Feanor? That's simply laughable to suggest it and you know it. Feanor battle feats poop all over theirs. Even in dying he put forth a greater effort than they did in their entire existence. We won't even get into his forging which further poop all over them. He would literally curb them pretty easily... yeah gothmog beat that guy.
Luthien greatest feat is catching Morgoth by surprise.. errrr.. not impressive. Further, it was hyperbole that someone vastly more powerful than Sauron would be under a spell but not Sauron himself... Odd eh? Maybe cause he wasn't directly impacted by it eh?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm unclear if you grasp this concept yet, because it certainly doesn't seem so. It's explicitly shown in a SET environment that he can punch that hard against a non moving and rolling target. There isn't one scene or shred of proof he can do so in an actual fight. Why do you keep saying there is. Please post the FIGHT scene where he punches like that on AverageWrong again big buddy, that isn't supported at all. Not even in the least. Apollo was clearly boasting, something we literally seen all the time in combat sports. Do you not agree this is a regular thing before the fight? So why are you taking it so literally? This is common place. Use some common sense Rob, he's not prime IN HIS MID 40's.. HAVING BEEN RETIRED FOR OVER 5 YEARS.. WHILE NOT FIGHITNG HW PROFESSIONALS OR TRAINING TO FIGHT THEM REGULARLY. It's not possible to be prime or in the best shape with those things listed. Not even close to possible. He was simple boasting and acting like all was okay. Did you believe he was fine when he told Rocky he was okay and not stop the fight? Did you think Apollo was fine when he put his hand up to his wife saying he's fine? Was he telling the truth when he said Rocky wouldn't last past the first round in Rocky 2? Apollo was a boaster throughout the entire series. This is common place for him. Use common sense rob, he couldn't be prime nor in the best shape of his life considering the circumstances
A fighter going beat mode for one last great performance is common place in combat sports... Nothing out of the ordinary. We don't need to suspend belief and common sense for it to fit neatly do we Robbie? We can look at Corbett vs. Jeffries... Ali vs. Foreman... Frazier for the 3rd Ali fight. Louis vs. Walcott no. 2... Charles vs. Marciano... Holyfield vs. Lewis No. 2... Ali vs. Norton (all three of them really)... Foreman vs. Moore That's not even getting into the lower divisions and listing SRR vs. Fulmer or Turpin or even Maxim.. nor SRL vs. Hagler or Morales vs. Pac 1... We can list fights like Couture vs. Tim Sylvia... Big Nog vs. Schaub.. hell even Helio vs. Santana... All these fights illustrate what someone can do past their prime and turn in a great performance nobody expected. No need to suspend belief or logic here Robbie, that's simply what Rocky did.
So the short from of you rant is: "It's not realistic, so it didn't happen", despite it being shown and stated
Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm not gonna read 17 pages of retardation so I'll just say Drago wins again. It might take him a little longer, but he kills him again, possibly in the 4th round this time.
Good choice as the 17 pages is mostly them crying about how things should work IRL and how we should ignore what the movies actually show.
Originally posted by Robtard
One last great performance? LoL! This happened again in Rocky V and VI, despite Rocky being brain damaged in IV due to Drago's super-punches. Totally realisticWhy do you believe what Apollo says when it suits you and claim "boastful liar" when it doesn't?
First off, those weren't "great" performances... Rocky 4 was. So those aren't close to comparable. Sh1t, one of them wasn't even a boxing match but a street fight lol. However, let's say they are, where did I say a fighter can only have one turning back the clock performance? I never did and it can happen more than once. This has also happened numerous times throughout boxing history. Nothing new or out of the ordinary there.
Wrong again, pot meet kettle. That's is EXACTLY verbatim what you're doing not me. You're talking simple pretty fight boasting and taking it literally. We see this happen all the time in real life and even when it comes to age. Ohh I feel like I'm 25 again... I'm in the best shape of my life (at 38) and then get KO'd. Pre-fight boasting and confidence means next to nothing, let alone taking it literally like you're doing. It's almost comical the lengths you're going to make Drago into something he's not. Now, he beat the best fighter ever in the Rockyverse who was in the best shape of his life.. wait for it... not at 25 or 30 while HW champion and fighting the best fighters in the world... Oh no.. he's in the best shape having been retired for over 5 years.. barely taking the fight seriously. Ohhh yeah, makes total sense.
You avoided the questions because they crush your argument. DId you believe Apollo when he told Rocky he was fine and not to stop the fight? Did you believe him when he gave the "I'm all good sign" to his wife after the first round? Did you believe all his pre fight hype before Rocky 2 saying Rocky is a bum who doesn't belong in the ring with him... He'll beat him in one round etc etc? We all know Apollo's character is one open to bragging and hyperbole. Yet a line that can clearly be seen as just pre fight bragging you take it literally, when we all know common sense tells us he couldn't be prime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=940_EOYRyqU
I watch again the scene where Drago hits at 1850 psi. I see Drago put himself in form, concentrate, take a breath and give it his all. How people on in this thread are taking this to mean that Drago delivers this kind of power on a daily basis in a fight is beyond me but hilarious.
I see nothing demonstrated from Drago that shows his hooks, jabs, or uppercuts deliver the same amount of power. Also, unless a target is standing still there is absolutely no way the full amount of the hit is going register. This is what made Ali so famous. No one could get a clean hit off him.
Next, I watch the fight with Apollo and Drago. After the first round, Apollo manager states to the Russians “what are you doing this is supposed to be an exhibition match”. Clearly, the director wanted the audience to know that Apollo was not trained like he would normally be for a real fight and was not taking the match seriously.
Adding the amount of clean hits Drago was able to get on Apollo firmly shows that Apollo was not in the best shape of his life. The fact that Drago hit Apollo so many times also shows his hits were not registering that 1850 psi.
The only hit where Drago mostly likely was able to register that amount of power or pressure would be the last hit he gave to Apollo where Apollo was not moving and clearly by Drago’s face he put his all into the punch.