Feminists outraged by Batgirl Cover....DC bows down...

Started by Existere13 pages

Originally posted by krisblaze
Smurph, I'm amazed you consider Q99's stuff quality when it's basically the most inflammatory tumblr shit I've seen in the comic section of KMC.
I'm going to talk specifically about stuff relating to the comic, because as soon as anything gets gamergatey, people lose their shit. I think it would be really cool if we could have a rational talk about any significant similarities or differences between this comic situation and gamergate, but that's clearly not happening here, and I don't want to get pulled into some flame war.

So, the comic:

I think Q99 was right to point out that the reason that the cover was pulled was, per the artist and DC, because people were threatened with harassment after vocalizing their complaints and negative feelings re: Batgirl's portrayal.

Further, I basically agree that the way that Batgirl is drawn on this cover is:

a) Not in line with the 'feel' of her current character or comic (which may or may not be a problem; your mileage may vary)

b) Obviously gendered. Maybe the cover doesn't spell out sexual assault, but I do think it shows that she is completely at the mercy of Joker, and reduced to terror and tears. I think the raw vulnerability that she's displaying is much starker than we usually/ever see in the way male heroes are drawn, and we're able to fit this within a context of previous sexual assault, whether that means nude photographs or rape.

It feels, as a fan, like Batgirl's not able to overcome and move through her previous trauma in a way that I would expect of any other superhero.

I'm not saying that I think that's necessarily a problem, but it's obvious some people do, including Q99, and I think the discussion on the first page was effective in that it was shedding light on two different perspectives.

Obviously just my take on things though, it looks like Pr and yourself felt differently about it. /shrug.

I agree with A, but not with B. No disrespect intended.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No disrespect intended.
👆

I guess I should add that I know f*ck all about tumblr, and I can't really comment on comparisons between posters here and users there.

Originally posted by Existere
I guess I should add that I know f*ck all about tumblr, and I can't really comment on comparisons between posters here and users there.

You're better off, tbh.

Originally posted by Existere
👆

I'm glad we can agree to disagree so cordially.

Same goes for Q99. I hope that, even if we see things this wildly differently, that Q knows that I have no personal problem with them, and just because they're on a side I don't personally agree with, doesn't mean I'm passing judgement on them as a person.

We just don't agree on very many things, but I would hope that, when it really comes down to it, we want the same things like equality and such. I'm sure they do, I'm just saying I hope I get extended the same courtesy.

I put a lot of thought into this:

We should band together, and complain about the treatment of men in romantic comedies. If they are ever remotely written as funny at the expense of a man we stage mass Twitter hate.

😂

Originally posted by -Pr-
I agree with A, but not with B. No disrespect intended.

I also disagree, but do not respect smurph.

Originally posted by roughrider
Of course that cover's not okay. It's the comic equivalent of torture porn, shock for it's own sake.

DC also recently got into hot water with Harley Quinn committing suicide in a bathtub contest, whatever that was about. I think they are really tone deaf about these things.


Getting in trouble doesn't mean they've done something wrong.

Marvel got in trouble for the Spider-woman cover....

If DC collectively decides that they want Harley Quinn to be chopped into little pieces and served to Robin, then that's their right. It's their characters, their right.

Having Batgirl look afraid of the man who crippled her on an alternate cover is nothing.

Originally posted by krisblaze
God damn nintenjews.

I can't move my BW pokemon into the pokebank because I have a japanese BW...and they claimed the DS was region-free.

Mmmh? That's weird, Pokebank was announced as region-free back in the day. I don't own american/japanese BW games so I can't check.

Originally posted by Bentley
Mmmh? That's weird, Pokebank was announced as region-free back in the day. I don't own american/japanese BW games so I can't check.

The pokebank is tied to one account as far as I know, and Pokemon BW won't work on a western 3ds.

Originally posted by krisblaze
The pokebank is tied to one account as far as I know, and Pokemon BW won't work on a western 3ds.

That's odd, I recall seeing a video that said that you could play BW games in 3DS disregarding their origin. I'll look into that, I'm a bit surprised to hear about this until now.

Originally posted by Bentley
That's odd, I recall seeing a video that said that you could play BW games in 3DS disregarding their origin. I'll look into that, I'm a bit surprised to hear about this until now.

Yes, me too.

But it's not like I haven't tried it.

Shit won't work 😛

Most newer DS games from Japan fall under the DSI-enhanced type of game, which means that they're region locked.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I also disagree, but do not respect smurph.

Getting in trouble doesn't mean they've done something wrong.

Marvel got in trouble for the Spider-woman cover....

If DC collectively decides that they want Harley Quinn to be chopped into little pieces and served to Robin, then that's their right. It's their characters, their right.

Having Batgirl look afraid of the man who crippled her on an alternate cover is nothing.

Ever read Knightfall? I'm going to assume you have, Bane sig and all. The issues that happen just after Bruce gets his back broken actually surpriseded me when I read them. I've never seen a major hero look so emasculated and, almost pathetic, so broken was he both physically and mentally.

I mean, Batman is the poster child for trauma that never gets dealt with, but this was something different.

Just read Thor 1 and see how far Thor had fallen after losing mjolnir. It was humiliating. This isn't.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Ever read Knightfall? I'm going to assume you have, Bane sig and all. The issues that happen just after Bruce gets his back broken actually surpriseded me when I read them. I've never seen a major hero look so emasculated and, almost pathetic, so broken was he both physically and mentally.

I mean, Batman is the poster child for trauma that never gets dealt with, but this was something different.

Knightfall set me down the bane bath, that and secret six.

It also mirrors Daredevil's "Pariah", which I loved.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Just read Thor 1 and see how far Thor had fallen after losing mjolnir. It was humiliating. This isn't.

It's pretty bad, and I'll gladly write a letter to Aaron telling him I don't approve of the direction he's taking the book in.

But I'd never try to censor him an deny him the right to write as he pleases.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Or when Jason got killed by Joker.

Hell Batman has repeatedly cried in canon too and he's an emotional tank compared to anyone else in comics, let alone ****ing Barbara.

Didn't Batman cry when he was pleading with Joker to stop being such a dick?

I'll ask again; post a cover where the male superhero looks like this - weeping, frightened and helpless. This cover plays very much on Barbara's gender.

Originally posted by roughrider
I'll ask again; post a cover where the male superhero looks like this - weeping, frightened and helpless. This cover plays very much on Barbara's gender.

Did I not just post a cover where Batman is bound and defeated?

At the knightfall cover his back is being broken.

In a death in the family he's holding jason's corpse and looking sad.

I can't think of any covers where Batman cries, though there are certainly many covers where he's stripped of agency and helpless...

Edit: the alternate cover didn't look all that great either:
http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mibeTvChJS1QUxsWoxvKV-A.jpg

Well, it didn't take me long to find covers where Batman is stripped of agency.

http://www.comicvine.com/batman-705-eye-of-the-beholder-part-two-see-no-evi/4000-249177/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-674-batman-dies-at-dawn/4000-124117/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-662-grotesk-conclusion/4000-115087/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-585-measure-for-measure/4000-98700/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-529-contagion-part-6-tears-of-blood/4000-42265/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-535-the-ogre-and-the-ape/4000-42854/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-540-the-spectre-of-vengeance-part-1-gotham-/4000-43454/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-546-major-arcana-part-3-hell-to-pay/4000-44053/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-548-the-penguin-returns-part-one-burning-fa/4000-44266/

Here's one where Bruce is crying:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/6/67663/3754885-603.jpg

Here's a bonus sadman:

http://www.comicvine.com/batman-528-two-face-part-2-the-schismed-face/4000-42169/
http://www.comicvine.com/batman-558-dying-city/4000-45326/

Let's continue with some shaming covers of Thor:

Behold the lack of agency! The gender! The helplessness!

At the mercy of someone else:
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-217-all-swords-against-them/4000-13814/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-377-this-hollowed-armor/4000-27911/
http://www.comicvine.com/journey-into-mystery-91-sandu-master-of-the-supern/4000-6464/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-24-tears-for-the-fallen/4000-75670/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-190-and-soto-die/4000-11554/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-606-latverian-prometheus-conclusion/4000-194446/

Thor being carried like a hapless babe:
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-331-holy-war/4000-23138/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-127-the-hammer-and-the-holocaust/4000-8497/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-209-warriors-in-the-night/4000-13025/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-305-hark-the-herald-angel-lives/4000-21126/

Thor begging:
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-359-the-grand-alliance/4000-25894/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-167-this-world-renounced/4000-10365/

Thor being sad:
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-58-standoff-part-1/4000-99304/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-71-undertow/4000-99317/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-83-ragnarok-part-the-fourth/4000-99329/

Thor being bullied by that meanie Hercules:
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-356-the-power-and-the-pride/4000-25601/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-6-whats-a-god-to-do/4000-45515/

Thor being tentacle-raped:
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-204-the-demon-from-the-depths/4000-12589/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-256-lurker-in-the-dark/4000-17206/
http://www.comicvine.com/thor-310-the-maelstrom-to-mephisto/4000-21460/

Everything's offensive these days, society is become way too politically correct.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Everything's offensive these days, society is become way too politically correct.

Your comment has offended me. Now I must post an article about it on my blog (of course just my side of the story)