The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, what do you think about below:

It is ironic that you ignore the number one reason for why his telepathy isn't all-powerful whilst posting a quote about the one character that proves that it isn't. I know all of Vitiate's feats but outside of rituals his best showings are not physical ones.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I think its interesting that the Sith Emperor totally failed to read Scourge's true intentions, which puts him below Plagueis and Sidious tbh.

Nah but dude. He has good TP 😕

😆

Originally posted by Beniboybling
First off the fields you mentioned offered a very narrow perspective on Force ability, so whatevs tbh.

I prefer to judge actual combat techniques and someones proficiency with them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless I covered lightning, midi-chlorian manipulation is the closely thing to Sith sorcery or rather alchemy, because its the creation and manipulation of life, but sure, the Sith Emperor is better in a field Plagueis never bothered to apply himself in *slow clap*, and I'm assuming TP = telepathy in which case I said no such thing.

However what is important (given I only argued Plagueis equal in all these things) is that Plagueis is just better and subverting the natural order, creating nexuses and the like.

I wasn't replying to you, so sorry if you felt I was attacking your points.

Also I don't really see how that is whats important. That doesn't really prove he's more powerful. And Vitiate has subverted the natural order a lot by splitting his soul, creating Force Voids, cheating death and doing a ton of other crazy BS.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Plagueis's involvement in tipping the Force to the dark side is still a greater display of Force mastery than anything Vitiate's ever done.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Plagueis's involvement in tipping the Force to the dark side is still a greater display of Force mastery than anything Vitiate's ever done.

I don't consider this feat valid for comparison.

I'd be interested in reading what Neph thinks about Vitiate and SWTOR relative to other characters and eras, in light of his renewed enthusiasm for such things.

I think its interesting that the Sith Emperor totally failed to read Scourge's true intentions, which puts him below Plagueis and Sidious tbh.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
👆

Well it's the best I can do, since I was the idiot who linked him to that in the first place...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is not Plagueis' exclusive feat. Plagueis and Sidious jointly performed this feat and it took them months to pull it off.

Of course it isn't Plagueis's exclusive feat. Just like the ritual on Nathema didn't exclusively involve Vitiate. But we still consider it anyway, don't we?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I don't consider this feat valid for comparison.

Well of course you don't.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I think its interesting that the Sith Emperor totally failed to read Scourge's true intentions, which puts him below Plagueis and Sidious tbh.

I can give Vitiate a pass on that since it really does seem like excessive contact with his mind can seriously damage an unprotected mind.

Plagueis's involvement in tipping the Force to the dark side is still a greater display of Force mastery than anything Vitiate's ever done.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Of course it isn't Plagueis's exclusive feat. Just like the ritual on Nathema didn't exclusively involve Vitiate. But we still consider it anyway, don't we.

Originally posted by psmith81992
If Plagueis was doing it by himself, yes.

Vitiate's exploits on Nathema, despite 8k other Sithly participants, are regularly cited as a display of Force mastery. I think we can give Plagueis a pass here for involving just one other guy.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I think its interesting that the Sith Emperor totally failed to read Scourge's true intentions, which puts him below Plagueis and Sidious tbh.

Angered by Luke's unwillingness to follow his father's path, the Emperor releases a storm of Sith lightning on the Jedi. But in failing to foresee Luke's defiance, the Emperor reveals that his own powers are fallible, and a wounded Vader realizes Palpatine can be destroyed.

Taken from Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide

You were saying?

SWTOR writers have to create a story, if they demonstrate Emperor Vitiate making perfect decisions every-time then what is the point of writing a story about him?

Emperor Vitiate 'could' break Lord Scourge and read his mind afterwards, but he did not. This is PIS.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I prefer to judge actual combat techniques and someones proficiency with them.

I wasn't replying to you, so sorry if you felt I was attacking your points.

Also I don't really see how that is whats important. That doesn't really prove he's more powerful. And Vitiate has subverted the natural order a lot by splitting his soul, creating Force Voids, cheating death and doing a ton of other crazy BS.

And its tied directly to power.

EDIT: Anyway I realise you probably didn't read my crit, so I'll leave it here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7979799&postcount=1379

If you want my reasons, they are all there. Do what you will.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Right...

Angered by Luke's unwillingness to follow his father's path, the Emperor releases a storm of Sith lightning on the Jedi. But in failing to foresee Luke's defiance, the Emperor reveals that his own powers are fallible, and a wounded Vader realizes Palpatine can be destroyed.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide

You were saying?

SWTOR writers have to create a story, if they demonstrate Emperor Vitiate making perfect decisions every-time then what is the point of writing a story about him?

Emperor Vitiate 'could' break Lord Scourge and read his mind afterwards, but he did not. This is PIS. [/B]

Leg., Beni was just screwing with you.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vitiate's exploits on Nathema, despite 8k other Sithly participants, are regularly cited as a display of Force mastery. I think we can give Plagueis a pass here for involving just one other guy.

While not knowing exactly what happened, we can infer that Vitiate destroyed the entire Sith Council himself. That seems more impressive to me. Morever, I'm not familiar with the circumstances surrounding the "shifting" of the force.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'd be interested in reading what Neph thinks about Vitiate and SWTOR relative to other characters and eras, in light of his renewed enthusiasm for such things.

You know that I prefer not to make any concrete statements on controversial subjects like this. I've always thought that Vitiate should be the most powerful Sith Lord in history, rivaled by Nihilus. I even think that it's absurd that he hasn't been concretely shown to be that way yet. But whether I believe that is the actual case in reality or that I'll argue that is another matter.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Of course it isn't Plagueis's exclusive feat. Just like the ritual on Nathema didn't exclusively involve Vitiate. But we still consider it anyway, don't we?

Nope.

Originally posted by psmith81992
While not knowing exactly what happened, we can infer that Vitiate destroyed the entire Sith Council himself.

That's a pretty generous inference. Either way, discounting Plagueis's feat because of Sidious's involvement while demanding consideration for Vitiate's ritual on Nathema {despite the involvement of thousands of other Sith Lords} doesn't wash.

As usual, I'm pretty indifferent about which way we go: count them both or disregard them both; there's no room for a double standard.