Originally posted by Selenial
Malgus did go rogue.And that's not the point. Of course it's going to happen initially, but it doesn't make for good story after we see it give or six times in a row.
I think Jadus' return could be unique. He is cautious, coldblooded and inhuman in a different sense. If he returns it won't be like "ARRGH I'm coming to destroy everyone."
If the writers don't screw things up for once, Jadus' return will be fun to watch for me.
Originally posted by SelenialYeah he looks like an aide, a guard or a consort of some kind.
I would be more sure if it was a woman to be honest, since the Hapans are ruled by women in a purely matriarchal society.The fact it's a man confuses me, but then again he's expressly not sitting on the throne. Looks more like a guard.
Originally posted by SiniousJadus doesn't actually die no matter what you choose does he?
I think Jadus' return could be unique. He is cautious, coldblooded and inhuman in a different sense. If he returns it won't be like "ARRGH I'm coming to destroy everyone."If the writers don't screw things up for once, Jadus' return will be fun to watch for me.
He should definitely come back, so much more potential.
But I think it would be boring it he were just another rogue Sith Lord, which is effectively what he was before, they should do some different.
Maybe Jadus will become the new Emperor. O_O
Originally posted by Selenial
Oh right.In that case, Yeh I'd absolutely love Jadus back. He's the living definition of badass.
👆
I wonder if they're keeping him reserved until Vitiate's story is finalized though. While Jadus is very cool, he'll be a downer if he returns after Vitiate. So I'm curious to know where they'll fit him in the story.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Jadus doesn't actually die no matter what you choose does he?He should definitely come back, so much more potential.
But I think it would be boring it he were just another rogue Sith Lord, which is effectively what he was before, they should do some different.
Maybe Jadus will become the new Emperor. O_O
No he doesn't.
While I'm pretty sure he won't become the new Emperor, I do think if he returns, he'll try to take charge of the Empire in a more unorthodox way compared to Malgus and probably achieve what he wants for awhile.
Any less baseless than your own assertion, that the Wrath would have barely ever been in contact with the Emperor over 300 years?
Regardless, think what you will. If we are comparing him to Sidious is hardly matters as Sidious was able to read Vader's mind from light years away.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
When did this occur? Revan was in stasis the whole time...Also the SWTORE merely notes that he was spared the crippling binding process which basically involved slaving Scourge to the Emperor's own consciousness, that is quite a lot different from never ever reading his mind.
In the book. Before they confront him, Revan teaches Meetra and Scourge a defensive technique against the Emperor's mental abilities:
“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.”
Correct. The binding process is crippling to someone's body and power in that Vitiate saps their vitality and force power, but the mental contact erodes their sanity. Servant Two was rendered insane because of his close connection and exposure to the Emperor's mind, as stated in the game and swtore.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The Sith Emperor, being the supreme master of the Force he is, never came across to me as the comical cliche of someone who can't touch anything without breaking it due to his immense strength.
You'd be wrong. Scourge was in mental agony from a brush with the Emperor's mind. Servant Two was exposed to the Emperor's mind and rendered insane. Swtore mentions other Jedi descending into fear and madness when faced with him and the codex suggests his mere presence can turn people nuts. There's a clear pattern of the Emperor being too corrupt an influence to be exposed to.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
In fact its pretty obvious that the Sith Emperor is giving him a deliberate taste of his power:But to say the Sith Emperor can not subtly probe without injuring or altering his victim? That points to a lack of the control Sidious evidently possesses.
It's more likely that he is simply too potent a force of corruption for most minds to survive contact with his, based on the evidence. If he does lack finesse that doesn't indicate that he's inferior to Sidious, it's that he's stronger. If he's so powerful he can damage minds without the intention to, imagine how much more potent his will would be when actually focused on causing harm and dominance.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Referring to the Bespin incident, we see Sidious probing the mind of Vader with Vader being none the wiser, and yet when Sidious wants his presence to be felt, it is felt.Much like with Scourge, the mere presence of Sidious' voice in his head brings Vader to his knees, from light-years away. That surpassing the Sith Emperor aside, the fact is Sidious can turn it off and on at will. So why can't Vitiate? If he can then there is no reason why he couldn't have read Scourge's mind other than incapability. He's inferior. If he can't, he hasn't full command over his power as Sidious does. He's inferior.
Its a lose lose situation I'm afraid. Sidious has that effect tbh.
That's an extremely biased interpretation. You're indicating that Sidious is more subtle and controlled, not superior. Vitiate's telepathy would actually be superior based upon it's massively harmful effects on people, not inferior. How does that make any sense? His sheer mental strength would need to be much larger and more damaging than Sidious' to be capable of such devastation.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not easy, just non-intrusive. In fact it would be quite difficult, as trained Force sensitives erect mental walls to prevent probing, and no doubt Scourge would have kept his true motives buried deep. Indeed as far as I'm aware, Darth Sidious is the only Force User capable of reading the surface thoughts and Force sensitives and non-Force sensitives alike with ease.We are talking Vader, Anakin, Luke, Maul etc. he's read people's innermost thoughts, fogged their minds, planted false emotions, and even dreams. He even claimed he clouded the mind of Darth Plagueis himself. Nobody has ever been able to keep anything from Sidious. And I'll just leave this here:
Again, this level of ability is as far as I'm aware unprecedented, so it does not mean that the Sith Emperor is a pleb for not sensing Scourge's deception, but he is decidedly inferior.
Simply because Sidious can do something that Vitiate has never done does not make him the superior telepath. Sidious has never accomplished numerous things that Vitiate has on the flip side nor received the levels of praise for his telepathic abilities that Vitiate has. He's inferior. In a direct mental battle he'd lose to Vitiate decisively.
You know that last quote is incorrect as much as I do. "It seems" to be a flat out lie.
Originally posted by psmith81992I'm asserting that if the Sith Emperor's telepathic powers were on par or superior to Sidious' be able to sense his disciple's traitorous thoughts, as Sidious could.
Just as I'm sure Vitiate could do the same to Scourge. Unless you're asserting that he should have been able to read everything, or that Palpatine was able to do the same, and based on the OT, we know that's nowhere near true.
Pretty simple tbh.
Originally posted by NephthysFair enough. I'm sure Vader, Plagueis and others knew how to shield their minds to however.
In the book. Before they confront him, Revan teaches Meetra and Scourge a defensive technique against the Emperor's mental abilities:“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.”
Correct. The binding process is crippling to someone's body and power in that Vitiate saps their vitality and force power, but the mental contact erodes their sanity. Servant Two was rendered insane because of his close connection and exposure to the Emperor's mind, as stated in the game and swtore.
But again their a difference between a forged bond, and prolonged exposure, and the brief probing it would require for the Sith Emperor to find out the truth, which again, can be non-invasive.
You'd be wrong. Scourge was in mental agony from a brush with the Emperor's mind. Servant Two was exposed to the Emperor's mind and rendered insane. Swtore mentions other Jedi descending into fear and madness when faced with him and the codex suggests his mere presence can turn people nuts. There's a clear pattern of the Emperor being too corrupt an influence to be exposed to.The thing is you've failed to prove that the Sith Emperor does this inadvertently, when in every instance it is quite obvious it is deliberate. The only instance in which it would be inconvenient for the Emperor was when he forged a connection to Servant Two, but again this is not the same as mere mental probing.It's more likely that he is simply too potent a force of corruption for most minds to survive contact with his, based on the evidence. If he does lack finesse that doesn't indicate that he's inferior to Sidious, it's that he's stronger. If he's so powerful he can damage minds without the intention to, imagine how much more potent his will would be when actually focused on causing harm and dominance.
That's an extremely biased interpretation. You're indicating that Sidious is more subtle and controlled, [b]not superior. Vitiate's telepathy would actually be superior based upon it's massively harmful effects on people, not inferior. How does that make any sense? His sheer mental strength would need to be much larger and more damaging than Sidious' to be capable of such devastation.[/b]Sidious mental abilities have been shown to be just as damaging as the Sith Emperors. So essentially Sidious is just as potent, and has superior control. That makes him better.
Simply because Sidious can do something that Vitiate has never done does not make him the superior telepath. Sidious has never accomplished numerous things that Vitiate has on the flip side nor received the levels of praise for his telepathic abilities that Vitiate has. He's inferior. In a direct mental battle he'd lose to Vitiate decisively.There is a considerably difference between never having done something another has, and being shown to be incapable of doing something another has.You know that last quote is incorrect as much as I do. "It seems" to be a flat out lie.
The Sith Emperor has been shown to be incapable of sensing deception in those around him. Sidious has never been shown to be incapable of any of the telepathic abilities that the Sith Emperor possesses.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Fair enough. I'm sure Vader, Plagueis and others knew how to shield their minds to however.
Scourge was taught a technique specifically to protect him mind from Vitiate. You wanted a reason why Vitiate never sensed his deception, there you go.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
But again their a difference between a forged bond, and prolonged exposure, and the brief probing it would require for the Sith Emperor to find out the truth, which again, can be non-invasive.
I don't recall anything saying prolonged exposure. Servant One isn't crazy, remember. Servant Two was said to have been exposed closely to Vitiate's mind but the details are vague.
And not if Scourge is protecting his thoughts. And Vitiate never had a reason to try to find out the truth, Scourge was his most loyal servant. Sidious always knew Vader hated him for ruining his life.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The thing is you've failed to prove that the Sith Emperor does this inadvertently, when in every instance it is quite obvious it is deliberate. The only instance in which it would be inconvenient for the Emperor was when he forged a connection to Servant Two, but again this is not the same as mere mental probing.
All he did was brush Scourge's mind. He didn't attack him or do anything damaging he just exposed Scourges mind to his, gave Scourge a glimpse of his true self. If his mind is so corrupt that thats all it takes then obviously its inadvertent.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sidious mental abilities have been shown to be just as damaging as the Sith Emperors. So essentially Sidious is just as potent, and has superior control. That makes him better.
They haven't though, nor as potent. The whole conversation indicates otherwise. Mere contact with Sidious' mind never drove anyone insane. At most their abilities are simply different. Vitiates is more corrupting due to his being and Sidious is more conventional.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
There is a considerably difference between never having done something another has, and being shown to be incapable of doing something another has.The Sith Emperor has been shown to be incapable of sensing deception in those around him. Sidious has never been shown to be incapable of any of the telepathic abilities that the Sith Emperor possesses.
Unless you're conceding to my point then Vitiate hasn't been definitively shown to be incapable. That he did not perceive Scourge's plan does not prove that he could not have, had Scourge had a less protected mind.
That's not true. Sidious has never split his consciousness across multiple beings or remotely possessed others.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge was taught a technique specifically to protect him mind from Vitiate. You wanted a reason why Vitiate never sensed his deception, there you go.
Where was this from? Sounds like Palpatine teaching Mara techniques to protect her mind from being sensed by Vader.
Why would Vitiate teach him techniques to shield against himself, though?