By the way, Freedon Nadd can take a body, because IIRC, that's what he wanted - to be rejuvenated in a body once again. Both Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos possessed bodies afterwards. The same applies for other dead Sith Lords like Karness Muur and Terrak Morrhage.
That being said, virtually all Sith spirits seek to "return to their former glory and power", implying they're weaker as spirits. Exar Kun himself suggests he was more powerful when he was alive.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm not really sure what your point is...
That an incredibly weakened Vitiate in a spiritual state isn't above "full-power body Vitiate" because of your argument that bodies have limits. Since when has Vitiate ever reached his limits with a body? By that logic, Vitiate's original body also had limits, and the same applies for Palpatine.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Do you have a quote/source for that?And yeah but even spirit Emperor in a weakened state is more powerful than bodily Emperor at full power. I also don't remember anyone saying the Emperor could consume the galaxy at a snap of his fingers or that he was incapable of annihilating Revan.
SOR. You've seen the walkthrough, right? Or played it?
Except that has no basis. The whole idea of the expansion is that Vitiate would be resurrected by Revan into bodily form, and in doing so the galaxy would be screwed. If he was actually more powerful as a spirit, there would be no need for him to actively try to resurrect himself, and the Galaxy would already be screwed.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
SOR. You've seen the walkthrough, right? Or played it?Except that has no basis. The whole idea of the expansion is that Vitiate would be resurrected by Revan into bodily form, and in doing so the galaxy would be screwed. If he was actually more powerful as a spirit, there would be no need for him to actively try to resurrect himself, and the Galaxy would already be screwed.
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Originally posted by SunRazerYeah I'm aware of that, and I have my own theories on the matter, some of which I have already expanded on on this thread. Anyway this is a very complex subject, and I plan on writing a blog on it, so I'll address this point then.
By the way, Freedon Nadd can take a body, because IIRC, that's what he wanted - to be rejuvenated in a body once again. Both Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos possessed bodies afterwards. The same applies for other dead Sith Lords like Karness Muur and Terrak Morrhage.That being said, virtually all Sith spirits seek to "return to their former glory and power", implying they're weaker as spirits. Exar Kun himself suggests he was more powerful when he was alive.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZYes I have, which is why I'm asking for an explicit source, because I don't recall any of this being stated.
SOR. You've seen the walkthrough, right? Or played it?Except that has no basis. The whole idea of the expansion is that Vitiate would be resurrected by Revan into bodily form, and in doing so the galaxy would be screwed. If he was actually more powerful as a spirit, there would be no need for him to actively try to resurrect himself, and the Galaxy would already be screwed.
To be specific:
The notion at the Emperor would be resurrected in bodily form.
That the Emperor was capable of consuming the galaxy without ritual, and instantly.
That the Emperor was incapable of defeating Revan, and was actually fleeing from him.
P.S. I'm referring to spirit Sith Emperor upon leaving Yavin 4, not when he was dormant. I think its pretty obvious he wouldn't be intially as powerful as he had been basically drained of all energy, and was supposed to be dead as a doorknob.
The notion at the Emperor would be resurrected in bodily form.
That the Emperor was capable of consuming the galaxy without ritual, and instantly.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes I have, which is why I'm asking for an explicit source, because I don't recall any of this being stated.To be specific:
The notion at the Emperor would be resurrected in bodily form.
That the Emperor was capable of consuming the galaxy without ritual, and instantly.
That the Emperor was incapable of defeating Revan, and was actually fleeing from him.
1. Revan was going to resurrect the Emperor in bodily form so that he could physically combat and defeat Vitiate. On the contrary, everyone states that if Vitiate is physically resurrected, Revan is screwed, and so is the Galaxy. Why wouldn't spirit Vitiate just enact the ritual to destroy the Galaxy, if he truly is more powerful and has no limits, according to you?
2. I never said this, and I'm not sure why you think I did. The fact of the matter is that spirit Vitiate isn't even capable of the ritual.
3. Him being unable to defeat the protags helps. Hell, he had to possess a body in order to even fight the protags. And when did I say the Emperor was fleeing from Revan, lol?
Skillz, none of them knew Vitiate was around as a spirit with that power, what are you talking about? He wasn't able to do any of his spirit feats without that drain...
We honestly don't know whether he's worse as a spirit or in a body, but obviously Satele thinks it's a body if in her eyes, body vitiate slayed councils and spirit vitiate could barely communicate.
Originally posted by Selenial
Skillz, none of them knew Vitiate was around as a spirit with that power, what are you talking about? He wasn't able to do any of his spirit feats without that drain...We honestly don't know whether he's worse as a spirit or in a body, but obviously Satele thinks it's a body if in her eyes, body vitiate slayed councils and spirit vitiate could barely communicate.
Sure, he drained the scores of dead to nourish his power, but it all leads to one goal: to return to his physical form, his full power. Annihilating Yavin was what would have done the trick, which was Revan's plan. If he's already reached what he was physically, he wouldn't actively seek to return to physical form, and he'd just annihilate the Galaxy in his relatively invulnerable state. He just isn't powerful enough yet.
Except his goal is to live as a physical entity, he doesn't want to be a spirit that has as of yet proved unable to manifest itself without a host. How do you know that the power he's gathering, he has to because creating a physical body requires immense energy?
We simply don't know, so what's the point debating until we do?
If he's just as powerful as he is physically, and is only turning into flesh because of desire, he'd annihilate the galaxy before doing so. It doesn't make sense that he feels the need to go into physical form before destroying the galaxy, unless he simply can't as a spirit, especially because as a spirit he's just about invulnerable.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
If he's just as powerful as he is physically, and is only turning into flesh because of desire, he'd annihilate the galaxy before doing so. It doesn't make sense that he feels the need to go into physical form before destroying the galaxy, unless he simply can't as a spirit, especially because as a spirit he's just about invulnerable.
He's perhaps the cockiest sith in the mythos, I doubt he thinks he'd fail in Physical form at all.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ1. Again I really don't remember that being said, though I do remember Marr being suprised that the Emperor did not emerge in bodily form, but rather as a spirit, and this is never actually attached to the extensiveness of the ritual.
1. Revan was going to resurrect the Emperor in bodily form so that he could physically combat and defeat Vitiate. On the contrary, everyone states that if Vitiate is physically resurrected, Revan is screwed, and so is the Galaxy. Why wouldn't spirit Vitiate just enact the ritual to destroy the Galaxy, if he truly is more powerful and has no limits, according to you?2. I never said this, and I'm not sure why you think I did. The fact of the matter is that spirit Vitiate isn't even capable of the ritual.
3. Him being unable to defeat the protags helps. Hell, he had to possess a body in order to even fight the protags. And when did I say the Emperor was fleeing from Revan, lol?
The quote from Marr:
He didn't assume a physical form or possess a body. And he left as soon as he appeared. None of it makes sense.Its left ambigious, it doesn't make sense, nobody chips in and says "probs because the ritual wasn't completed."
Its probably because the Sith Emperor just didn't have a body to go into, he can't just make one.
2. But what I'm trying to say is that this galaxy consuming ritual requires a lot of preparation, the fact that the Sith Emperor hasn't done it yet doesn't mean he can't in his current state, just that he hasn't made the preparations.
3. You said the Sith Emperor couldn't beat Revan, or the protags, on the basis he didn't try, the implication surely therefore being that he fled.
However I think he just chose to leave, he didn't have any interest in confronting Revan, but that hardly means he could not, and destroy him.
I'd also point out folks that spiritual form is very unstable. A physical body is both a cage but also a vessel, the Sith Emperor can't exist as a spirit forever, eventually he'd be dragged into the Netherworld without a physical anchor to tie himself to the physical plane.