The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Considering the Sith Emperor has been described as so withered and corrupted he is no longer recognizable as a Sith pureblood, I would bring that into question, I would also raise the fact that the Emperor in part appears to sustain himself from body hopping from Voice to Voice, presumably changing Voice after the prievous one has been physically exhausted.

Regardless, despite the Sith Emperor's attempts to overcome his physical limitations they will always exist, in some form. Even if the Sith Emperor is able to stave off old age and the crippling effects of Force corruption, his body remains limited in its capacity to act as a conduit for Force energy both in terms of physical tissue and midichlorians. He can optimise his body as much as he likes, but it will always exist as a limiter as long as said body exists.Lol I'm afraid not, seeing as the Sith Emperor was among the Sith who fled to Dromund Kaas, it couldn't possibly be referring to him, considering he had never set foot on the planet.

The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Not just this, but physical appearance itself became meaningless for Vitiate ever since he began to acquire hosts. But the point stands that he does not experience aging and its detrimental effects.

---

So your argument is that Vitiate's proper power comes into effect when he operates without a physical body?

Or

Maybe Vitiate's command of the Force had further improved since the commencement of Children feat? But he is demonstrating this improvement now.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So it is clearly referring to a preexisting nexus, no doubt established by Vitiate's predecessors.

Here is the complete statement:

The powerful electrical storms were a physical manifestation of the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet—a power that had brought the Sith back here a millennium before, when their very survival had been in doubt.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

The aforementioned revelation is an indirect pointer towards actions of Vitiate. He brought Sith to Dromund Kaas in the aftermath of the Great Hyperspace War and he is responsible for the corruption of environment of Dromund Kaas:

Power hungry, the Emperor spent great energy discovering and perfecting esoteric rites of darkness – rituals that wrecked the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas, transforming the ionosphere into a swirling electric storm.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: (Holonet)

You should not misrepresent an established FACT, period.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The Revan novel set the precedent for the Sith Emperor being able to destroy the Dark Council. I think you'll find the Sith Emperor's abilities have been quite consistent. And there is no narrative purpose in amplifying his abilities with each piece of new material "cause reasons."

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So your basically saying it was beyond his capabilities, I understand why that must be hard for you to articulate.

Vitiate haven't been on the front-lines of conflict between the Republic and Empire prior to events of Yavin IV; he mostly operated from behind-the-scenes to perform his deeds. He apparently possessed sufficient power to influence an entire planet back then (an example already provided) but his true intentions weren't well-known back then and the Children project was more practical under these circumstances. However, after the setback and exposure of his true intentions, he have no incentive to hold back anymore.

This:

In another time, it might have been cause for celebration. It might have emboldened the Empire, breathing new life into their efforts to crush the Republic. But with the Sith Emperor's apparent reawakening comes the common knowledge that he is no longer interested in ruling over the galaxy. Instead, he seeks to consume it. The Empire's highest ranking officers and dignitaries are now in a state of heightened alert, and the Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless, the Emperor as you pointed out "lost much of his power" as a result of these instances, nor was he said to be at full strength when violently departing Yavin 4. And yet despite this still managed to pull of these feat.

So again, how was the Sith Emperor in a weakened state, capable of pulling off a feat that he was seemingly unable to perform in life, while juggling several other tasks?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yet he is essence is always contained within a corporeal vessel (read cage).

Originally posted by Beniboybling
What we are seeing here is the Emperor unleashed, from his corporeal form.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This matter is covered:

The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Not just this, but physical appearance itself became meaningless for Vitiate ever since he began to acquire hosts. But the point stands that he does not experience aging and its detrimental effects.

---

So your argument is that Vitiate's proper power comes into effect when he operates without a physical body?

Or

Maybe Vitiate's command of the Force had further improved since the commencement of Children feat? But he is demonstrating this improvement now.[/b]

Case in point:

Arranging the Jedi on the outside points of the Grand Temple, Dorsk stood alone on the observation deck, atop a Force apex. All the Jedi channeled their power through him, and surrendering fully to the Force, Dorsk shoved the Star Destroyers end-over-end out of the star system in what possibly is the most powerful use of Force Push in recorded history. The enormous Force power flowing through him overpowered his body, burning through it and killing him. As Kyp raced up the temple to catch Dorsk, he uttered his final words: "They're gone, my friend".

--Taken from Wookieepedia

The physical body can only channel so much Force energy without being damaged, it is a conduit and like any conduit can be overloaded.

The same applies to midichlorians, which all living organisms possess, midichlorians are a medium by which communication with the Force is made, a middle man of sorts. And while the number of midichlorians one possesses does not directly correspond to your strength in the Force, they are nonetheless intrinsic to a beings power and like the body, have limits.

No amount of sorcery is going to free Vitiate from these limits completely, he would have to eradicate them completely, and that means shedding one's physical form in its entirety.

As a spirit there are no limits to the Sith Emperors power, and his command of the Force can be exerted in its entirety.

You are wrong, absolutely wrong about this matter.

Here is the complete statement:

The powerful electrical storms were a physical manifestation of the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet—a power that had brought the Sith back here a millennium before, when their very survival had been in doubt.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

The aforementioned revelation is an indirect pointer towards actions of Vitiate. He brought Sith to Dromund Kaas in the aftermath of the Great Hyperspace War and he is responsible for the corruption of environment of Dromund Kaas:

Power hungry, the Emperor spent great energy discovering and perfecting esoteric rites of darkness – rituals that wrecked the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas, transforming the ionosphere into a swirling electric storm.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: (Holonet)

You should not misrepresent an established FACT, period.[/b]

...the dark side power that engulfed the entire planet

The Sith Emperor neither engulfed the planet, nor was intrinsic to it as this description implies. He is a being, housed in a singular form, and his presence is contained in that form, he is not everywhere on Kaas all at once.

The dark side nexus on Kaas however does engulf the planet, and is intrinsic to it, the only logical conclusion that can be made here therefore is that the "power" being referred to is the nexus.

FACT. Bubbo.

Their had been skepticism about this matter prior to release of [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia. Just like you are finding it difficult to digest that Vitiate single-handedly corrupted the environment of Dromund Kaas.

No.

Vitiate haven't been on the front-lines of conflict between the Republic and Empire prior to events of Yavin IV; he mostly operated from behind-the-scenes to perform his deeds. He apparently possessed sufficient power to influence an entire planet back then (an example already provided) but his true intentions weren't well-known back then and the Children project was more practical under these circumstances. However, after the setback and exposure of his true intentions, he have no incentive to hold back anymore.

This:

In another time, it might have been cause for celebration. It might have emboldened the Empire, breathing new life into their efforts to crush the Republic. But with the Sith Emperor's apparent reawakening comes the common knowledge that he is no longer interested in ruling over the galaxy. Instead, he seeks to consume it. The Empire's highest ranking officers and dignitaries are now in a state of heightened alert, and the Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan[/b]

The fact is he could have done it much quicker, expended less resources, and left his plan, in his own hands, much less vulnerable to being thwarted.

Vitiate had further grown in power since the times of corrupting the environment of Dromund Kaas. While he lost significant power during a setback (i.e. disruption of his ultimate ritual, thanks to his enemies), he is likely recovering at a fast pace. And he may likely grow more powerful then ever before by drawing energy from chaos and individuals into himself.

Anyway you've just touched upon my point, the Sith Emperor has a direct uplink to the Force right now, he's effectively a temporary resident in the Netherworld of the Force. I don't really feel I need to explain why that gives him tremendous power to draw on.

Well, it seems I do.

Even with the corporeal vessels, Vitiate have some of the best showings in the mythos.

Point is spirit feats can't be compared with the physical showings of other Force sensitives i.e. Darth Sidious. Because we don't know what Sidious would be capable of with the unique advantages of physical liberation, certainly a lot more than in life.

😐 Beni is so desperate, lmfao.

Beni BTW, the entire point of the last two expansions has been the Emperor in his current form is weak compared to if he reclaimed a full-powered physical body.

Not really, its that the Emperor has been unleashed, and he is pissed.

Except SOR reports that if Vitiate is fully resurrected into a fully powered body, he would be capable of wiping out the galaxy. Instead, codex entries mention that his spirit was not powerful enough to even kill Yavin IV. This current incarnation of Vitiate is slowly working up to his full power by consuming the life force of Ziost. Perhaps by the very end of the expansion he is at his full power again, but certainly not before all of his incredible feats happen.

The Sith Emperor in a "fully powered body" was already was capable of wiping out the galaxy, but we know he could only do so via an extensive ritual. Nor has he ever shown the ability to cause so much destruction without ritual.

Nor is there as far as I'm aware, any mention of the Revanites intentions or ability to resurrect the Sith Emperor in bodily form.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nor is there as far as I'm aware, any mention of the Revanites intentions or ability to resurrect the Sith Emperor in bodily form.

In SOR? Yeah...the whole point of the expansion was that revan was going to resurrect the emperor in bodily form. And the point of that being bad was that the emperor would annihilate revan, or anyone, and consume the Galaxy. He can't do either of those things as a spirit. Hell, even Satele says, "he's not as strong as he might have been," after Revan's plan was averted.

What are we actually arguing here anyway?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
In SOR? Yeah...the whole point of the expansion was that revan was going to resurrect the emperor in bodily form. And the point of that being bad was that the emperor would annihilate revan, or anyone, and consume the Galaxy. He can't do either of those things as a spirit. Hell, even Satele says, "he's not as strong as he might have been," after Revan's plan was averted.

And yeah but even spirit Emperor in a weakened state is more powerful than bodily Emperor at full power. I also don't remember anyone saying the Emperor could consume the galaxy at a snap of his fingers or that he was incapable of annihilating Revan.

And yeah but even spirit Emperor in a weakened state is more powerful than bodily Emperor at full power

What? Lol. The Emperor's spirit is no different than the body, he's just learning more and more as time moves along. He was already preparing for a galaxy destroying ritual before the HoT took him down. A few more incidents made him more knowledgeable regarding the ritual.

And I assume you've got a source too?

That's like saying Abeloth was weaker whenever she took a form. Or Sidious and his clones.

Abeloth and the Sith Emperor are incomparable. Do you really think Abeloth's forms are comparable to fleshy person's body?

Sidious is another example. Bodies have limits, but these limits can be stretched further if the possessor is very powerful.

Abeloth can manifest as various beings but has also possessed others in the past. She's probably not the best example, but Sidious as of DE is a better one.

Abeloth and the Sith Emperor are incomparable. Do you really think Abeloth's forms are comparable to fleshy person's body?

And I assume you've got a source too?

Considering that numerous Sith seek fresh bodies because they believe they'll be reincarnated in their prime, I think it's highly likely that the body-weakness argument doesn't really apply, unless it's actually too weak to sustain the possessor's form. As long as there's a powerful host body, it'll be fine.

For this notion that the Sith Emperor has become more experienced and capable with his ritual, and if you took the time to read everything I have said you'd understand my basis.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Considering that numerous Sith seek fresh bodies because they believe they'll be reincarnated in their prime, I think it's highly likely that the body-weakness argument doesn't really apply, unless it's actually too weak to sustain the possessor's form. As long as there's a powerful host body, it'll be fine.