Originally posted by Beniboybling
Wolf is right, being a spirit makes one much more potent, as you are no longer restricted by the limitations of your physical form e.g. midichlorians and altogether are in closer harmony with the Force. Just like Jedi, Sith Spirits can become "more powerful than you can possible imagine".
Yes, spirits are in closer harmony with the Force but they have limitations that they attempt to overcome by acquiring a suitable host which they use to manipulate the environment in greater ways then they can otherwise.
And that statement implies "immortality," if I am not mistaken.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Hence why Exar Kun believed that by transforming into a spirit, he would become unstoppable.
As an example:
The spirit of Exar Kun, trapped for four thousand years, had been awakened by the Jedi trainees and their explorations of the Force. Restricted in his ethereal form, Kun convinced Durron to seek greater pathways of power; the Sith Lord's plan was to achieve his own freedom.
Taken from (Star Wars: The Essential Chronology; Page 102)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
That says nothing about Spirit beings not being able to match their mortal body. All it's saying is that Vitiate used his immense power of the Dark side and he's a spirit there.Also PS, Exar Kun?...He showed far more power than when he was mortal.
But i'll let the people with better knowledge of spiritual forms take this.
1. Spirits do not have the raw power of their mortal-self.
2. Emperor used his own power to perform impressive feats on Ziost. I provided ample evidence for verification of this point, refuting your (nexus argument) in the process.
As for point 1, see my response to member Beniboybling above, using the example of Exar Kun.
Also, SWTOR expansion (Shadow of Revan) discloses that Emperor is actually weaker in ethereal form. This makes sense since Emperor lost much of his power when his ultimate ritual was disrupted and suffered further setback from the confrontations during this moment of weakness.
However, Emperor is regaining his strength.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My earlier disclosure have two points:1. Spirits do not have the raw power of their mortal-self.
2. Emperor used his own power to perform impressive feats on Ziost. I provided ample evidence for verification of this point, refuting your (nexus argument) in the process.
As for point 1, see my response to member Beniboybling above, using the example of Exar Kun.
Also, SWTOR expansion (Shadow of Revan) discloses that Emperor is actually weaker in ethereal form. And that Emperor is making effort to regain his power.
It's not really evidence considering spirit or body, of course it's going to be Vitiate's own power. But who says that he isn't drawing upon the nexus energies?
Plus as I recall at the end of the expansion of Revan, he did return and showed how powerful he was, so if he was weak before, he isn't weak now.
Yeah, Obi-Wan was clearly speaking metaphorically and about his spiritual strength that would allow him eternal consciousness than about Force strength. Otherwise he would have snapped Vaders neck himself.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
It's not really evidence considering spirit or body, of course it's going to be Vitiate's own power. But who says that he isn't drawing upon the nexus energies?Plus as I recall at the end of the expansion of Revan, he did return and showed how powerful he was, so if he was weak before, he isn't weak now.
He returned in spirit form, but clearly not to full strength imo.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, Obi-Wan was clearly speaking metaphorically and about his spiritual strength that would allow him eternal consciousness than about Force strength. Otherwise he would have snapped Vaders neck himself.He returned in spirit form, but clearly not to full strength imo.
Well regardless anyway, he's shown to be powerful as a spirit considering what he's done on Ziost.
Though I guess we shall have to wait until playing, to see what is what.
Anyway I'm done here.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
It's not really evidence considering spirit or body, of course it's going to be Vitiate's own power. But who says that he isn't drawing upon the nexus energies?
Your argument is baseless.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Plus as I recall at the end of the expansion of Revan, he did return and showed how powerful he was, so if he was weak before, he isn't weak now.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What part of this statement "Using his immense power in the dark side of the Force," - you didn't understand?Your argument is baseless.
Emperor is very powerful even in ethereal form. However, he is in the process of regaining his former strength.
I understand yes, that he uses his immense power in the darkside.
But I'm not really using it as an argument, just speculating that he could also be possible drawing from Zoist too along with his power.
But anyway I'm done, just gonna wait and see what is what when the expansion comes out and what happens.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDRestricted =/= less powerful. What the Chronology refers to is Exar Kun's inability to leave Yavin 4 (and likely his restriction to areas around the Temple) i.e. "his own freedom." Because many Sith spirits are forced to anchor themselves to certain points to avoid being subsumed by the Force, chains strengthed by the Order's Wall of Light.
Spirits do not have the raw power of mortals.Yes, spirits are in closer harmony with the Force but they have limitations that they attempt to overcome by acquiring a suitable host which they use to manipulate the environment in greater ways then they can otherwise.
And that statement implies "immortality," if I am not mistaken.
Exar Kun, in spirit form, seduced a subject (e.g. Jedi padawan) to dark side. Using this strategy, he was able to possess a fallen padawan.
As an example:
The spirit of Exar Kun, trapped for four thousand years, had been awakened by the Jedi trainees and their explorations of the Force. Restricted in his ethereal form, Kun convinced Durron to seek greater pathways of power; the Sith Lord's plan was to achieve his own freedom.
Taken from (Star Wars: The Essential Chronology; Page 102)
The ability to effect the corporeal world is an initial barrier, but once overcome Sith spirits can exert immense power.
Exar Kun, despite not being at full strength - his powers depleted after 4,000 years -remained incredibly powerful and able to influence the environment in potent ways.
For examples he ragdolls Corran Horn, causes Luke to experience profound illusions, burns Gantoris inside out and with Kyp's help one shots Skywalker and sends him into a coma. The various amps he required to perform some of these feats are irrelevant, as his powers had faded, if Kun had been at full strength all of this would have been within his ability.
And all of these feats surpass everything Kun did in life.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDIn spirit form lots of barriers would be broken down, especially in regards to the abilities of others to defend themselves against you, so essentially he'd be able to do more with less.
Also, SWTOR expansion (Shadow of Revan) discloses that Emperor is actually weaker in ethereal form. This makes sense since Emperor lost much of his power when his ultimate ritual was disrupted and suffered further setback from the confrontations during this moment of weakness.However, Emperor is regaining his strength.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
It baffles me how people keep forgetting that Disney have stated they will be borrowing/recycling stuff from the EU/Legends continuity. That means they can easily bring him back into it.They are not so stupid that they'd just ignore so many awesome ideas.
Sure, I thought you were implying he was still canon not that Disney may decide to copy him.
With that said, I'd strongly disagree that Vitiate is an "awesome idea". There are plenty of bad ass Sith that I would be happy if they drew upon: Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, Revan, even Nihilus to some extent. But Vitiate? Keep that shitty Sidious clone as far away from canon as possible.
In regards to Exar Kun:
Drained from thousands of Massassi sacrifices ... the power is rising. The ritual begun ... Sith power objects unleashed! Even as the Jedi approach, Exar Kun prepares to unleash his powerful spirit ... to shed the chains of his mortal body and run rampant throughout the cosmos!In many ways the Sith Emperor is doing the same thing here , heck he's probably using the same apparatus.http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114474/4292486-drain+ritual5.jpg
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Major waves of butthurt from the TOR crew. Looks like I'll be surfing!
Uh, no. It's butthurt from the PT crowd, trying to prove Sidious is the best again. We were all being very placid until people got defensive and tried to compare feats.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
In spirit form lots of barriers would be broken down, especially in regards to the abilities of others to defend themselves against you, so essentially he'd be able to do more with less.
You really think that if Vitiate was at full strength he'd still be unable to dominate Lana? He's clearly still not all there yet.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I think people generally liked Vitiate more when they first saw him in Return of the Jedi.
