H2H and melee Cap takes this. Too strong and too durable. Legolas might be faster and more agile, but not by enough to offset the shield advantage.
Distance, well... Cap has survived machine gun fire, but Legolas is a superb archer. If he can keep his distance (which he should be able to) then he only has to get through Cap's defense once to store a hit. Even if it's not fatal, enough hits should eventually slow Cap down through blood loss.
So, distance I'll give the advantage to Legolas - it's his specialty and if Cap tries to use his shield it will leave him wide open. But in melee and H2H Cap is a beast - able to literally tear Legolas apart.
Originally posted by Dreampanther
H2H and melee Cap takes this. Too strong and too durable. Legolas might be faster and more agile, but not by enough to offset the shield advantage.Distance, well... Cap has survived machine gun fire, but Legolas is a superb archer. If he can keep his distance (which he should be able to) then he only has to get through Cap's defense once to store a hit. Even if it's not fatal, enough hits should eventually slow Cap down through blood loss.
So, distance I'll give the advantage to Legolas - it's his specialty and if Cap tries to use his shield it will leave him wide open. But in melee and H2H Cap is a beast - able to literally tear Legolas apart.
Shield advantage? Two swords is a far bigger advantage in melee than 1 shield. Cap's durability won't mean much when you're facing sharp weapons.
Originally posted by ares834
The amount to flip a motorcycle that is ridiculous. He also smashed a car door with a drop kick in a new commercial (been awhile since I saw the movies hence why I'm using feats from he commercials).As for Batroc, that just means he can take hits better than Legolas.
Dude, you hit the front breaks on a motorcycle that's going at a decent speed and it will flip itself. Granted, Cap added his own strength to that but let's not pretend it was purely his strength that powered that. Basic physics here.
As for Batroc, let's face it: you have no counter-argument to my proof that Cap can't always one shot his opponents. So the only thing you can come up with is "Batroc is more durable that Legolas, duh". That's a pathetic argument and you know it.
I gave you proof that Cap can't one shot Legolas. If you still believe he can then it's up to you to provide proof.
Two swords won't mean much when you're simply sent flying through the air to get crushed against a wall by a bigger, stronger, unstoppable opponent charging at you behind an unbreakable shield.
Legolas's only chance for a win is to get as far away from Cap as possible. Once Cap is close enough to get his hands on him, it's game over.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Dude, you hit the front breaks on a motorcycle that's going at a decent speed and it will flip itself. Granted, Cap added his own strength to that but let's not pretend it was purely his strength that powered that. Basic physics here.As for Batroc, let's face it: you have no counter-argument to my proof that Cap can't always one shot his opponents. So the only thing you can come up with is "Batroc is more durable that Legolas, duh". That's a pathetic argument and you know it.
I gave you proof that Cap can't one shot Legolas. If you still believe he can then it's up to you to provide proof.
Not like that. Doing so flips it over the front wheel. Cap was responsible for lifting it as it rotates over himself. He also greatly accelerated the speed.
Ah, no. Batroc taking hits from Cap is a better durability feat then anything Legolas has shown (or Cap wasn't giving it his all). That mean he has higher proven durabilty the Legolas. That's how these debates work via feats. ***** and moan about it all you want but via feats Batroc's durability is better.
Quite simply, Cap has shown vastly greater strength than anything Legolas has been shown to handle.
Originally posted by ares834
Not like that. Doing so flips it over the front wheel. Cap was responsible for lifting it as it rotates over himself. He also greatly accelerated the speed.Ah, no. Batroc taking hits from Cap is a better durability feat then anything Legolas has shown (or Cap wasn't giving it his all). That mean he has higher proven durabilty the Legolas. That's how these debates work via feats. ***** and moan about it all you want but via feats Batroc's durability is better.
Quite simply, Cap has shown vastly greater strength than anything Legolas has been shown to handle.
Batroc is a normal human, and Cap was unable to KO him with a single hit. And the conclusion you drew from that is that Legolas has less durability than a normal human. Riiight. Batroc withstanding blows from Cap is not proof that Batroc somehow has superhuman durability, its proof that Cap doesn't hit as hard as you want to believe.
Again... you have no feats to back up your claim. In fact, you have zero proof that shows that Cap can KO Legolas with one hit. Go ahead, give me on screen feats that show Cap knocking out someone of Legolas' strength level with one hit or a feat of someone Cap's strength or lower knocking out Legolas with one hit. Until you provide such proof, all you have is your wishful thinking. On screen feats is what works here, not your silly little opinions.
When Cap charges Batroc with his shield, he sends him flying through the air about fifteen feet. And Batroc is bigger and heavier than Legolas.
From the time he puts away his shield and drops his mask, it takes Cap less than 10 seconds to put Batroc down. Every strike or kick by Batroc is either blocked or avoided during this time. A single elbow strike to the head causes Batroc to stagger back several steps, dazed. A front-flip kick then puts him down, unable to defend himself. The rest is overkill.
Using Batroc as an example of a skilled opponent enduring an assault by Cap is a poor choice.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Batroc is a normal human,
"Normal human" get that shit out of here. The fact that he was taking hits from Cap like that with little harm shows he is clearly beyond "normal human".
Originally posted by FrothByte
Go ahead, give me on screen feats that show Cap knocking out someone of Legolas' strength level with one hit or a feat of someone Cap's strength or lower knocking out Legolas with one hit. Until you provide such proof, all you have is your wishful thinking. On screen feats is what works here, not your silly little opinions.
This is also a shit argument. Once again I bring up my Superman example. Supes never KOs any opponents in the film. Yet clearly he could do so because of his strength feats. The same logic holds for Cap.
Originally posted by Dreampanther
When Cap charges Batroc with his shield, he sends him flying through the air about fifteen feet. And Batroc is bigger and heavier than Legolas.From the time he puts away his shield and drops his mask, it takes Cap less than 10 seconds to put Batroc down. Every strike or kick by Batroc is either blocked or avoided during this time. A single elbow strike to the head causes Batroc to stagger back several steps, dazed. A front-flip kick then puts him down, unable to defend himself. The rest is overkill.
Using Batroc as an example of a skilled opponent enduring an assault by Cap is a poor choice.
I used Batroc as an example because some people were claiming a single hit from Cap will KO Legolas. I just proved it false. Now I have a question for both you and Ares: Do you think Batroc is stronger and more durable than Legolas?
Originally posted by ares834
"Normal human" get that shit out of here. The fact that he was taking hits from Cap like that with little harm shows he is clearly beyond "normal human".This is also a shit argument. Once again I bring up my Superman example. Supes never KOs any opponents in the film. Yet clearly he could do so because of his strength feats. The same logic holds for Cap.
He is not an average human, but he is normal. No enhancements and mutations, etc.
Anyway, let me take a step back and ask you this: Do you believe Batroc is stronger or more durable than Legolas?
Originally posted by FrothByte
I used Batroc as an example because some people were claiming a single hit from Cap will KO Legolas. I just proved it false. Now I have a question for both you and Ares: Do you think Batroc is stronger and more durable than Legolas?
I don't know, to be fair. My first instinct is to say yes, but to answer your question I'll have to watch that last Hobbit movie again to see the final fight. I got a bit bored with the movie so I wasn't really paying close attention to all his feats. Give me a few days and I'll be able to give you a more informed answer.
In general fantasy folklore humans are usually a bit stronger and more durable than elves, which is why elves usually prefer to use magic or archery. Getting up close and personal means they lose all their advantages, like their agility and dexterity (unless you're Drizzt, but that's a whole other story). Elves are supposed to be head and shoulders above all the other races when it comes to spells and forest/ranger skills, which includes using the bow and arrow.
Dwarfs are incredibly strong and durable, with almost inexhaustible stamina. That's why they love getting in your face - with their strength and stamina they can wear heavy armour and shrug off blows that would crush an elf. Humans are supposed to be somewhere between - stronger and more durable than elves but less than dwarfs, with better agility and dexterity than dwarfs but less than elves.
But that's mostly going by books, and not just Tolkien's books either, but also a whole lot of other worlds created by authors influenced by Tolkien. I do know that movie Legolas is already beastly compared to book Legolas. Book Legolas, as far as I recall, was reckoned by Tolkien to be pretty much the weakest of the Companions. I think book Aragorn would have probably destroyed book Legolas. But it's also been ages since I read the books.
Movie Legolas, of course, has gotten a lot of love from Jackson, which puts him in a whole other class (in fact, based on that last fight, I think Jackson might be a Drizzt Do'Urden fan as well). So, I guess I'll just have to watch the movie again and try to spot anything that can be used to measure his durability.
For now, though, my answer will have to be: Yes. I think Batroc is probably stronger and more durable than Legolas.
It depends on the lore. Forgotten Realms has humans stronger than elves. Drizzt himself has admitted this. But in Eragon it's mentioned that even the weakest elf is far stronger than the strongest human.
I don't recall how Tolkien elves are, I believe they're stronger than humans but I'm not too familiar. However since we saw Legolas match Bolg in h2h, I think it's safe to say that Legolas is a lot stronger than a human.
Originally posted by FrothByte
It depends on the lore. Forgotten Realms has humans stronger than elves. Drizzt himself has admitted this. But in Eragon it's mentioned that even the weakest elf is far stronger than the strongest human.I don't recall how Tolkien elves are, I believe they're stronger than humans but I'm not too familiar. However since we saw Legolas match Bolg in h2h, I think it's safe to say that Legolas is a lot stronger than a human.
* Unfortunately I never got into the Eragon series - I think I was a bit too old when they came out. By that time I was more into dark fantasy, like Stephen King's The Dark Tower series.
* I thought there might be a feat of Legolas that could be used to demonstrate his strength in The Two Towers, where he pulled Aragorn and Gimli up a wall using a rope, but it turns out he had help.
* Will try my best to see the Five Armies scene again in the next few days, as that is probably the best scene to scan for feats of strength. Unless you can think of any other scenes?
Elves were created to be perfect, they are better than humans or dwarves in every fashion physically and mentally, they are the finest warriors in middle-earth.
Legolas in the book is so strong that he can use his massive war-bow, supposedly as large as he is and shoot down Orcs in the midst of trees and not miss a shot, despite going down the Anduin in a boat. Problem with the books when it comes to battles is that Tolkien never goes into detail.
Elves are stronger than Numenoreans and they are supposed to be the greatest humans in Middle-Earth.