Loki vs Sauron

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
IOW: Cause he was a little stronger then Captain America, now he can resist Saurons Tk because Cap is stronger then Gandalf..

If Loki was that strong he would not be getting his ass beat everytime he turns around.

😆

This notion that because Loki always loses therefore he can not be that strong and will lose here is not logically sound.

If Loki loses to people that are stronger than Sauron that does not automatically mean Sauron will beat Loki.

The only way that statement would hold true is if you could convince us that Sauron is as strong as the people who have beaten Loki. Currently that list is Thor and Hulk. I don't count Ironman because their encounters were short and really only consist of Ironman shooting Loki. Both times Loki seemed undamaged by the attack. Since we never got to have a conclusive battle between the two I wouldn't count it.

So once again the only way your statement would hold true is if you could prove Sauron was as strong as Thor or Hulk. Good luck with that one.

As it stands simply because Loki has lost before does not mean he automatically loses here.

Sanity?

No one sane would say that because Captain is stronger then Gandalf he can resist Saurons TK, its idiotic to think that Sauron can't man handle him with TK and his superior magic. From your logic you think he can't.

You have made your case but it doesn't work. Saurons raw power was enough to disintegrate Gandalfs magic staff, treat him like cannon fodder and destroy and entire castle.

You made the case that since Captain>Gandalf, Sauron can't do the same to Loki because Loki>Cap..However thats poor logic.

You place to much faith in a punching bag who's biggest claim to fame was throwing Captain America around.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Sanity?

No one sane would say that because Captain is stronger then Gandalf he can resist Saurons TK, its idiotic to think that Sauron can't man handle him with TK and his superior magic. From your logic you think he can't.

You have made your case but it doesn't work. Saurons raw power was enough to disintegrate Gandalfs magic staff, treat him like cannon fodder and destroy and entire castle.

You made the case that since Captain>Gandalf, Sauron can't do the same to Loki because Loki>Cap..However thats poor logic.

You place to much faith in a punching bag who's biggest claim to fame was throwing Captain America around.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
So, what exactly stops Sauron from TKing Loki or mind****ing him? Can't recall any feats that suggest such a thing, though haven't watched an MCU film in a while

Also has Loki ever effected intangiable beings?

What mind rape feats for Sauron are you referring to?

Saurons feat at the beginning of LOTR rivals any strength feat seen by the Hulk in combat, him casually swiping 10 guys 20 feet into the air as if he was buttering toast with each swing of his mace is the same feat Hulk had swatting the Chitauri away in Avengers, so yes, Sauron is most certainly on their level strength wise.

Originally posted by relentless1
Saurons feat at the beginning of LOTR rivals any strength feat seen by the Hulk in combat, him casually swiping 10 guys 20 feet into the air as if he was buttering toast with each swing of his mace is the same feat Hulk had swatting the Chitauri away in Avengers, so yes, Sauron is most certainly on their level strength wise.

Let's not go crazy here. Tossing soldiers with each swing does not rival Hulk's best "feats" as his best is stopping a multi-thousand ton flying beast in mid flight with a punch to the face.

Sauron has not shown Thor or Hulk level power IMO.

He hasn't even shown close to that power. Though I will submit that him beating Gandalf and awakening the Wraiths was the most impressive things. Elrond himself said nobody on middle earth had the power to do that. Being what Gandalf was and his standing means Sauron beating him as he did was extremely impressive, even though it's not an actual fight.. more like a test of magical wills.

He beats Loki down...hard.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Let's not go crazy here. Tossing soldiers with each swing does not rival Hulk's best "feats" as his best is stopping a multi-thousand ton flying beast in mid flight with a punch to the face.

Sauron has not shown Thor or Hulk level power IMO.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Let's not go crazy here. Tossing soldiers with each swing does not rival Hulk's best "feats" as his best is stopping a multi-thousand ton flying beast in mid flight with a punch to the face.

Sauron has not shown Thor or Hulk level power IMO.

Def Hulk or Thor could take him.

But Loki, no way.

Sauron can burn him to death by touching him, hit him with enough force to shatter human bodies and easily destroy buildings, telepathically dominate him, use illusions with far greater proficiency.

That is not including book feats in which Sauron easily defeats Thor tier characters.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sauron can burn him to death by touching him, hit him with enough force to shatter human bodies and easily destroy buildings, telepathically dominate him, use illusions with far greater proficiency.

That is not including book feats in which Sauron easily defeats Thor tier characters.

Movie Thor versions you mean. Cuz comic Thor would molest Book Sauron in his no-no place...

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Let's not go crazy here. Tossing soldiers with each swing does not rival Hulk's best "feats" as his best is stopping a multi-thousand ton flying beast in mid flight with a punch to the face.

Or Thor's hit that took out a huge chunk of Jotunheim ice shelf.

But you have to excuse him. Relentless1 likes to lowball the crap out of anything Marvel and then call everyone who doesn't agree with his statements fanboys. Nothing Sauron has done puts him physically on par with either Hulk or Thor.

While I don't think Loki wins this particular fight, labeling him as little more than a punching bag is extremely unfair. Only people who have genuinely beat him are Thor and Hulk, and he wasn't even trying to fight the Hulk. He has easily bested Dark Elves, Frost Giants etc. and showed enough intelligence and cunning to even defeat the likes of Kurse, someone Thor got his ass kicked by. And it took the entire Avengers team to stop him and his plans of taking over Earth. And he still managed to take over Odin's place without seemingly anyone even noticing. So Loki is far more competent than some people are trying to claim.

A few other things. You don't have to have telekinesis yourself in order to provide resistance to telekinesis. Various factors play a part. For example, a guy who is only telekinetically powerful enough to lift a brick will never pose a threat to the Hulk, or manage to budge him an inch (unless he throws a brick sized nuke at him, in which case they both die). But at the same time, if someone is telekinetically powerful enough to lift your mass, and you have no flight or other ways of countering said force, your own strength is irrelevant. Can't apply strength to anything while floating in mid air.

Anyway, the only thing Loki has above Sauron is durability, and I think Sauron has enough strength and power that he could eventually put Loki down long enough to count as a win. But seriously, people acting like Loki is little more than a talking sack of potatoes is painful to observe.

nobody said Loki wasn't cunning, its just that in a straight up fight without his illusions he's phucked, he's been beaten like a chump each time he's tried fisticuffs

Well, to be fair, the two people who kicked his ass, while watered down from the comics, are still probably the two most powerful beings on MCU Earth. Like I mentioned, I do agree that Sauron should take this fight, but this thread makes it come across like Loki is a total chump, when he is still more powerful than most beings we have seen so far in the MCU and has actually achieved a lot.

Think about it, how long is the list really of people in the MCU which you would guarantee could beat Loki one-on-one, if he is given his spear and allowed all of his powers? Any of the other Avengers, with the exception of Iron Man, would get squashed if Loki really wanted them dead.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Movie Thor versions you mean. Cuz comic Thor would molest Book Sauron in his no-no place...

Thor would be a little too busy in la-la land to do anything of the sort.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Thor would be a little too busy in la-la land to do anything of the sort.

I would LOVE to hear the combat "feats" that you think Sauron has that makes you think this. You should post a Sauron vs Thor battle in the all VS forum.

However, I was clear about the movie "feats" only rule so I won't violate that rule.

As I said at the start, swing and smash is not exactly Sauron's style. His illusions and magic however is extremely potent.

I love how all of Loki's losses are counted against him, and yet none of Sauron's are.. odd. Did we forget that Sauron was beaten by the combined forces of Men and Elves. The same battle where Sauron is showing smacking all these people away is the same battle he ultimately lost and decisively so. Most recently he was vanquished from his fortress Galadriel powered up and seemingly briefly overpowered him. Are we forgetting that somebody so smart and powerful and uber couldn't even prevent a hobbit was destroying the ring and by proxy him. For all his illusions, TK and TP he was still unable to prevent a damn thing. This isn't even getting into all his losses in the books by various things. He's not exactly the pillar of unbeatable is he.

I only counted his loses because someone pissed me off with the logic that because Loki supposidly had all this power to resist Saurons TK based off Loki>Captain America. Piss poor reasoning to now that son own with a little strength can shrug off TK.

Anyways you gonna actually debate or do your usual trolling in the thread without actually taking a side?