Dragon Ball Discussion Thread

Originally posted by NewGuy01
No, he is, and he's right. DBS fighters atm are only fighting at supersonic speeds at best.

I was just watching the fights themselves on youtube, didn't see the whole episodes, but apparently the Galactic King said exactly what I assumed it was, that he freezes time for 0.1 seconds.

The best thing Hit did with his free 0.1 seconds was cross a couple hundred feet at most. That's...a little under Mach 2.

What makes it worse, if Goku failed to be able predict the moves, it could have actually made his speed look a lot better. If he said something like "He has a 0.1 second advantage. That feels like he's hours ahead to me!", then it would have been a good speed showing for him. But instead...Goku was able to predict ahead because 0.1 seconds was not that much of a time advantage to him. Which is bad, 0.1 seconds should be very, very long to Goku by this point, but it isn't.

I would have easily said that the high end Z-fighters like Goku and Vegeta should be able to throw entire strings of combinations in a microsecond or less, but by this showing, Goku wouldn't even be able to blink in a microsecond. 😬

Toriyama didn't think things through enough, which is maddening. Relative to how far they are in the series, this is a seriously bad speed showing for everyone involved. 😬

This has nothing to do with Goku's speed. In that 0.1 second Hit is moving instantly. It doesnt matter if he is only moving 5 feet. It is happening instantly. Nobody could counter it with pure speed. No clue what you are talking about.

Hit is not even trying at this point. You assume wayyyy to much here.

Originally posted by bbrem123
This has nothing to do with Goku's speed. In that 0.1 second Hit is moving instantly. It doesnt matter if he is only moving 5 feet. It is happening instantly. Nobody could counter it with pure speed. No clue what you are talking about.

Hit is not even trying at this point. You assume wayyyy to much here.

You did not understand. At all. No surprise there.

The INSTANT he moves is irrelevant, that's his real time speed under the time stop. I'm not talking about that or the inability to counter that.

But that *instant* only lasts for 0.1 seconds as far as Hit's perception. And what is the most he does with that 0.1 seconds? Cross the length of the arena. That's the most he does.

So it took him 0.1 seconds to cross the arena to punch Vegeta according to his perception. The time stop simply allowed him to skip the 0.1 seconds that would have passed in real time for him to cross the arena to punch Vegeta.

Goku was specifically able to predict ahead because according to him it was 'only' 0.1 seconds. 0.1 seconds should be an extremely, extremely long time to him, but according to him, its not.

There is no way to chop this up as anything other than a bad speed feat if you analyze it. Blame Toriyama.

Edit: I really don't see why he thought 1/10 of a second sounded impressive enough. He could have gone with even 1/100th of a second and even that would have been so much better for the feat. I don't get Toriyama's brain sometimes.

You are reading way to deep into this. All it shows is Goku is a genius when it comes to fighting.

How would Superman do against this attack? He would lose to it just like Vegeta did. Even if Hit is not that fast, he is still fast enough to make any attack he wants in that 0.1 second. He does not need to rely on speed like the Z-fighters. Vegeta even mentions that he has incredible reactions but slow speed. All he needs is that reaction to win.

Still have no clue why you are attempting(and failing) to downplay the Hit vs Goku fight.

Why to be a jackass with your post too. No need for that.

Naruto>>>SSJG Goku confirmed.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Naruto>>>SSJG Goku confirmed.

Originally posted by bbrem123
You are reading way to deep into this. All it shows is Goku is a genius when it comes to fighting.

Aye, a genius that can predict ahead by 0.1 seconds after some trial and error because by his admission, 0.1 seconds isn't a huge amount of time. Incontrovertible.

How would Superman do against this attack?He would lose to it just like Vegeta did

Why the hell would you bring him up? Did I bring him up? You wouldn't like the answer, but its a red herring anyway, born of some butthurt defensiveness on your end.

Even if Hit is not that fast, he is still fast enough to make any attack he wants in that 0.1 second. He does not need to rely on speed like the Z-fighters. Vegeta even mentions that he has incredible reactions but slow speed. All he needs is that reaction to win.

I have no idea what you are even trying to say here, but it does absolutely nothing to stave off the fact that Hit does not do much with 0.1 seconds, and neither does Vegeta or Goku either in their attempt to counter it.

Still have no clue why you are attempting(and failing) to downplay the Hit vs Goku fight.

Why to be a jackass with your post too. No need for that. [/B]

It's a bad speed feat, and it irks me because it should be far better.

You have shown that you did not understand the matter of my issue with the feat and chirped in anyway. The only person failing anything is you, in understanding the specifics of the feat.

The superman post proves my point. And you avoiding it proves I am right. It is the only way to get it though to your pea brain...

Are you going to address my points or not? Because it seems you are doing nothing but silently conceding that you did not understand my appraisal of the feat, with your lame equivocation there.

Sorry about your inability to debate and your shitty appeal to motive fallacy as a defense.

Haha address your point? The point that Goku thinks 0.1 is a short amount of time? Just re-watched it and nowhere does he say that. Even if it did. Feats say otherwise.

Why are you dodging my point about Superman? Im using him to prove my argument. Speed does not matter here. If he was slowing time I could see how speed could counter it but he is stopping it.

Also how is Goku predicting his movement not impressive? Just the fact he is doing this is impressive nevermind the 0.1 of a second. wtf man
You have made zero valid points to this being a poor showing for anybody.

lmao at the low balling.

seriously haha

Originally posted by bbrem123
Haha address your point? The point that Goku thinks 0.1 is a short amount of time? Just re-watched it and nowhere does he say that. Even if it did. Feats say otherwise.

He does not have to outright say it. His statement that he only has to predict ahead by 0.1 seconds says he thinks its a relatively trivial amount of time, and he does not do a lot to counter anyway, just one or two moves. Again, if Goku admitted that 0.1 seconds is too much of an advantage that would actually make his speed superior here, because it would show that 0.1 seconds is a very significant amount of time to him.

If in this scene, as you imply, Goku actually thinks 0.1 seconds is a very longtime, then that creates a plothole. Because his reflexes should be so superior to Hit's that he should be able to knock him out before Hit even gets the time stop started. But he doesn't. Because, well, its not.

As for feats, He has never had a scene where he tells us his perception speed outright. The thing you continue to ignore though, I said that this feat SHOULD be better for where they are. It's a good feat for the Dragon Ball era, but terrible for this late.

Which is why its something to completely ignore as a very, very low feat.

Why are you dodging my point about Superman? Im using him to prove my argument. Speed does not matter here. If he was slowing time I could see how speed could counter it but he is stopping it.

Jesus Christ. You idiot.

I was never talking about reacting to Hit under his time stop effect. I never said "they should be fast enough to react to a guy moving in instant time".

I was talking about the 0.1 seconds, which is an extremely unimpressive amount of time for the little they did.

Hit's reflexes/speed by feats, is not impressive at all. He has 0.1 seconds and never does anything more impressive than throw a punch after crossing the length of the arena. By proxy, its a bad speed scenario for Vegeta and Goku too since to them 0.1 seconds is not a long time.

You aren't using anything to prove any argument, you are just proving that you can't read or comprehend the debate at hand.

No need to respond to the red herring about Superman in this line of discussion.

I would be more than happy to answer this question if you simply ask it as unrelated post after, and admit you didn't understand what I was trying to talk about on this particular subject.

You have made zero valid points to this being a poor showing for anybody. [/B]

You're an idiot who brought up a shitty appeal to motive fallacy as a butthurt defense when I analyzed the feat, and are languishing since you did so.

Which is funny, because I'm not even the first person to bring up that the feats in this whole scenario are actually very unimpressive when taken at face value.

Also how is Goku predicting his movement not impressive? Just the fact he is doing this is impressive nevermind the 0.1 of a second. wtf man
You have made zero valid points to this being a poor showing for anybody.

I didn't say it was unimpressive, but as a speed feat its not.

Goku just showed that he's a great fighter, which we already knew.

An expert fighter should be able to predict ahead by a second if he's figured out his opponent's predictable patterns.

The way Goku talks, 0.1 seconds is maybe equivalent to thinking ahead by a 1 full second to him, maybe a few seconds. Which is not impressive. 0.1 seconds should feel like hours to him at least, hell, it should feel like *years* if his speed actually developed the way you'd think.

It was stated in the same freaking show that .1 second is NOTHING. Its the speed Hit is using thats making it effective. Give anyone with speed a .1 headstart where they can freeze time and that would make it a stomp.

Also, someone needs to explain when Hit is using this time skip because its never referenced or indicated. A lot of that could be his speed and even if it wasn't, giving FLASH, let alone Hit the ability to Freeze time at .1 second is a LIFE TIME to them.

Carver always late to the game, and never reading what was said before, which already covers any points he could have made.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Are you going to address my points or not? Because it seems you are doing nothing but silently conceding that you did not understand my appraisal of the feat, with your lame equivocation there.

Sorry about your inability to debate and your shitty appeal to motive fallacy as a defense.

Bbrem is right, you are wrong..just deal with.

It is impossible for anyone to take anything meaningful away from Hit's power, so far. We don't know what is happening within that 0.1 second Hit has. We don't even know if Hit can see in that time frame himself, given that he can't see that Goku is about to block. Goku and Hit may both be blind in the timeskip, but Hit had the advantage of knowing it was about to happen and could plan according. For all we know, Hit could be taking a nap and then rising up at the last moment to attack. Hit looks like he's barely trying and the anime isn't showing us what's happening. We just don't know.

The fact that Goku is predicting 0.1 second into the future at every perceivable instant, that is astonishing. How does Goku even know when Hit is going to activate his power? The Time Stop has no visual ques.

Speed isn't the key factor here though. This showing is quite simple. Hit is Freezing time. Theres no way to counter time unles...

Whats the definition of Freezing time? Freezing time is when everything around you is Frozen to a standstill. This is what Hit is doing. The world around him is at a standstill. Nothing is moving. What does this mean? His opponents are not moving for .1 second. Is .1 second long. No, it isnt. Hell, to a human it isnt. It was even stated in the same issue that .1 second is nothing. Why is this so effective against the z fighters? Because Hit has super speed. That .1 second of stand still time is a humongous advantage for someone with god like speed. Its to the point that the Z fighters are saying he is using instant transmission and outright vanishing off of the field. Why is this? Because .1 second is HIGHLY effective for someone with insane speed.

Hit then mentions that he isnt use to people living after too many hits from him which is obiously the reason he isn't punching his opponent at high end speeds. LOL... you all are basically saying Master Roshi hand speed is faster than Hits. Hit doesn't need to hit you too many times to achieve Victory. This was proven when he took out Vegeta. His sisngle hits were enough. Thats like me asking why Flash hit Zoom once when he was achieving light speed? WTF. He hit him once because that one hit was effective.

Anyways. This isn't hard to comprehend. Give anyone with super speed a .1 second advantage in a fight where time literally stops, that leads to a stomp...plain and simple. I can easily post showings of Superman struggling to reach the speed of sound just to end this topic but whats the point? DBS is meant to be a fun show, lets stop dissecting everything.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
It is impossible for anyone to take anything meaningful away from Hit's power, so far. We don't know what is happening within that 0.1 second Hit has. We don't even know if Hit can see in that time frame himself, given that he can't see that Goku is about to block. Goku and Hit may both be blind in the timeskip, but Hit had the advantage of knowing it was about to happen and could plan according. For all we know, Hit could be taking a nap and then rising up at the last moment to attack. Hit looks like he's barely trying and the anime isn't showing us what's happening. We just don't know.

The fact that Goku is predicting 0.1 second into the future at every perceivable instant, that is astonishing. How does Goku even know when Hit is going to activate his power?

Exactly