Not really. As a kid with a power level of 10, before he even knew what ki was, Goku had bullets bouncing off of his face like it was no big deal. Suppressed or not, Goku shouldn't be hurt by bullets with a power level in the billions or trillions. Then again, Goku in early DB was more of a gag character, so his power level at the time is probably not all that relevant.
So, Krillen went and upped Tien's technique.. Tien better have something up his sleeve. I'm still wondering when he is gonna be considered since they only talked about nine, and left out Tien and Yamcha on the list.
Also as for Goten and Trunks being too unskilled for this. They literally have a years time to train Goten and Trunks better, AND learn to work together as a team. 36 hours gives them a year plus time to rest after coming out so that was a cop out on that part. Course they also look like they are 6 and 7 instead of 13 and 14.. And they always want to fight and train but they get blown off.
Originally posted by KentoNever really cared for Goten and Trunks. The reasons Goku doesn't want them on the team make ZERO sense, but I'm glad they aren't coming along for the ride. There is NO LOGICAL reason to pick Master Roshi over Yamcha, but Yamcha has becoming a walking talking meme. This is all about bringing back the characters people like and giving them time to shine. Which frankly, I agree with. They could've handled the means of making Krillin/Tien/Piccolo/Roshi relevant again a LOT better than what we got here, but I agree wholeheartedly with the underlying rationale. Making this show all about super saiyans and power levels was a big mistake and one I'm glad there are at least attempting to rectify.
So, Krillen went and upped Tien's technique.. Tien better have something up his sleeve. I'm still wondering when he is gonna be considered since they only talked about nine, and left out Tien and Yamcha on the list.Also as for Goten and Trunks being too unskilled for this. They literally have a years time to train Goten and Trunks better, AND learn to work together as a team. 36 hours gives them a year plus time to rest after coming out so that was a cop out on that part. Course they also look like they are 6 and 7 instead of 13 and 14.. And they always want to fight and train but they get blown off.
Hopefully, this "power isn't all that matters" mantra sticks and goes beyond this story arc.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Never really cared for Goten and Trunks. The reasons Goku doesn't want them on the team make ZERO sense, but I'm glad they aren't coming along for the ride. There is NO LOGICAL reason to pick Master Roshi over Yamcha, but Yamcha has becoming a walking talking meme. This is all about bringing back the characters people like and giving them time to shine. Which frankly, I agree with. They could've handled the means of making Krillin/Tien/Piccolo/Roshi relevant again a LOT better than what we got here, but I agree wholeheartedly with the underlying rationale. Making this show all about super saiyans and power levels was a big mistake and one I'm glad there are at least attempting to rectify.Hopefully, this "power isn't all that matters" mantra sticks and goes beyond this story arc.
Goten, Trunks, and Tien are my favorite characters, and the last time Goten and Trunks got a time to do something it was being overwhelmed by a fake Vegeta, and Gokou to save the day. But in a tournament that involves teamwork you'd think the two people who can be completely in sync with another would be good addition to the team. Plus they are the only ones who have fought as actual team plenty of times.
I'm still not holding out any hope that this tournament doesn't just come down to Gokou vs Jiren. If it actually comes down to skills over power I will be amazed. Course I am also 99% sure that this arc will be a hundred times better in the manga. The rest of the series has been imo.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Such bullshit. Krillin standing up to SSB Goku for longer than a nanosecond in a kamehameha struggle is probably the worst power inconsistency I've ever seen.
Nah... Goku used kamehameha to that level where Krillin was capable to stand. Goku could have done the same in his basic form with no effort. I think it was more that Krillin feels the pressure he can feel in ToP and mostly it was done for fans.
Don't take this too seriously.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Gohan's supposed to be the smart one, so why did he get outsmarted by Krillen? It was a matter of that rather than being overpowered by him.
Like I said... it was done for fans of classic DB and don't take episode 84 too seriously.
It was a fun episode.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeHe got outsmarted by being blinded, when he fought blind against a foe he couldn't sense the ki of only a couple of hours ago if that long...
Gohan's supposed to be the smart one, so why did he get outsmarted by Krillen? It was a matter of that rather than being overpowered by him.
Eh, true.
Originally posted by Inedian
Nah... Goku used kamehameha to that level where Krillin was capable to stand. Goku could have done the same in his basic form with no effort. I think it was more that Krillin feels the pressure he can feel in ToP and mostly it was done for fans.Don't take this too seriously.
Like I said... it was done for fans of classic DB and don't take episode 84 too seriously.
It was a fun episode.
The hyperbole is real with the "Krillen is overpowered now, power levels don't mean zip anymore" talk.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Eh, true.Yeah, it seemed kinda obvious Goku was only testing Krillen with Blue form, and didn't look like he was going all out with the kamehameha, even though his wave was still bigger than Krillen's. Think he was waiting to see if Krillen could make a comeback before pushing further, but then 18 jumped in when she saw that wasn't going well.
The hyperbole is real with the "Krillen is overpowered now, power levels don't mean zip anymore" talk.
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Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeI took the message to be a lot simpler than that, which is that Krillin (and likely other characters) can now hang with the big dogs thanks to skill/experience. This was especially the case where Krillin beat Gohan and Gohan saying "Wow, I still have a lot to learn!"
Eh, true.Yeah, it seemed kinda obvious Goku was only testing Krillen with Blue form, and didn't look like he was going all out with the kamehameha, even though his wave was still bigger than Krillen's. Think he was waiting to see if Krillen could make a comeback before pushing further, but then 18 jumped in when she saw that wasn't going well.
The hyperbole is real with the "Krillen is overpowered now, power levels don't mean zip anymore" talk.
If we took the old "power levels" school of thought, Gohan or Goku would've easily been able to "blitz" Krillin before he performed any of his moves. And even if Krillin did punch them, it'd be no different than Krillin punching Perfect Cell. From the "power levels" school of thought, there is ZERO reason to put Krillin, much less master Roshi on the team. It should've been "Okay guys, lets go train Goten/Trunks in the ROSAT for a day." Or "lets teach everybody the fusion dance and borrow the potara earrings from the kais." Or "lets teach everybody the kaioken as opposed to just Goku using it all the time!" Or "lets train Gohan and get him up to SSB level after some training in the ROSAT!"
The writers are against that. And not only are they against this school of thought, but have repeatedly made it clear that they will do whatever the f-ck they want to do regardless of the fandom's pet peeves or even basic logic. If they want Krillin to suffer a friggin bullet wound from an ordinary gun, they will suffer a bullet wound from an ordinary gun no questions asked. If they want Goku to suddenly outperform a bloodlusted Hit without kaioken x 10, they will do so no questions asked. If they want Future Trunks to go from being Dabura level to SSR Black level in like the blink of an eye, they will do so no questions asked. Hell, if they want Whis to deus ex machina Bulla into existence so that Vegeta will join the ToP, they will do so no question asked.
Wasn't denying that power levels don't mean as much now and I have no problem with it for the sake of older characters getting some spotlight again, some of whom are my favorites. Just don't believe that power levels necessarily mean nothing in any situation anymore. There's always gonna be some fights where it comes down to power to some degree depending on the kind of combatants fighting, but now we have that balance with strategy/skill and other things playing more of a factor.
Ah... Krillin can never compete against big dogs and never will, no matter his experience.. on the contrary,... he doesn't stand 0.1% of a chance. This was an episode just to show Goku, Gohan has to adapt to the rules and Krillin showed them that. Outside of that Krillin will stay absolutely irrelevant against big dogs and also in those battle royale rules Krillin will be irrelevant when battle royale will dispose of those weaker fighters.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeIt's not so much that they "mean nothing" as they don't appear be the only relevant factor anymore. I'm sure we'll never see Krillin competing against the likes of Beerus or Jiren, but skill/experience is now at least relevant enough to where people like Krillin can legitimately bring something to the table. And frankly, that's what this show has been needing since the Cell arc. Hopefully, this mantra stays as there's only so much you can write about when it's the Goku/Vegeta show.
Wasn't denying that power levels don't mean as much now and I have no problem with it for the sake of older characters getting some spotlight again, some of whom are my favorites. Just don't believe that power levels necessarily mean nothing in any situation anymore. There's always gonna be some fights where it comes down to power to some degree depending on the kind of combatants fighting, but now we have that balance with strategy/skill and other things playing more of a factor.
Originally posted by InedianWe saw him competing and we saw no indication of anything you just said. Using power level logic, there is ZERO reason for Krillin to be on the team. They could've adapted to the rules (which is BS, since Goku has fought under such rules just as much as Krillin and has done even better each time). And not only did we see him competing, but we'll see other non-saiyan/majin fighters doing so in a similar fashion. It's a subtle retcon, but one that was probably needed since "x's power level is better than y's, therefore x automatically wins" has been pigeon holing the story for a long time now. They basically used bad writing to clean up bad writing.
Ah... Krillin can never compete against big dogs and never will, no matter his experience.. on the contrary,... he doesn't stand 0.1% of a chance. This was an episode just to show Goku, Gohan has to adapt to the rules and Krillin showed them that. Outside of that Krillin will stay absolutely irrelevant against big dogs and also in those battle royale rules Krillin will be irrelevant when battle royale will dispose of those weaker fighters.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
We saw him competing and we saw no indication of anything you just said. Using power level logic, there is ZERO reason for Krillin to be on the team. They could've adapted to the rules (which is BS, since Goku has fought under such rules just as much as Krillin and has done even better each time). And not only did we see him competing, but we'll see other non-saiyan/majin fighters doing so in a similar fashion. It's a subtle retcon, but one that was probably needed since "x's power level is better than y's, therefore x automatically wins" has been pigeon holing the story for a long time now. They basically used bad writing to clean up bad writing.
Let's wait for future episodes, where there will be one main villain and again seeing everyone with lesser power being absolutely irrelevant. Krillin will be useful in battle royale because of rules and useful not against top dogs. Krillin will always stay irrelevant agains big dogs.
I can't believe your extreme exeggaration because of this one episode, where Krillin was just a tool for showing different situations because of rules and because of this also used as fan service.
Just wait for future episodes. There is no subtle retcon here, just your exeggaration.
Originally posted by InedianI can't believe you're calling it an exreme exaggeration when I'm simply going by what we saw on screen. He beat Gohan fair and square. Gohan acknowledged this and even said he had a lot to learn. He gave Goku a good enough fight to make him go SSJ. Goku was legitimately impressed by him. Chocking it up as rules and fan service is great, but the hard fact remains is that he should NOT be able to do either of these things going by the established canon. It's inconsistent with every prior event up until now. We have a word for that: Retcon. And I'll retract the words 'subtle' since I don't even think it's all that subtle. It's them saying "F-ck it! We'll do whatever the f-ck we want when we want it!"
Let's wait for future episodes, where there will be one main villain and again seeing everyone with lesser power being absolutely irrelevant. Krillin will be useful in battle royale because of rules and useful not against top dogs. Krillin will always stay irrelevant agains big dogs.I can't believe your extreme exeggaration because of this one episode, where Krillin was just a tool for showing different situations because of rules and because of this also used as fan service.
Just wait for future episodes. There is no subtle retcon here, just your exeggaration.
What I don't understand is why you're all that surprised. They did the exact same thing with having Piccolo give Frost a good fight despite Frost being at least roughly around Base Goku's level who was at least around ROF Final Form Frieza's level. They then went on to do the same thing with Future Trunks fighting Black. They haven't given a crap about power levels for some time now. This episode is just the most blatant example.