Originally posted by carver9We're talking about a dude who is literally strung up and actively tortured in hell. Not to mention that if such training were indeed possible for him, it makes you wonder why he never opted to do so during the 15 prior years he had been strung up for (as far as they know) the rest of eternity. But I digress. The writers don't want to be bogged down by actively having to shape the story around Frieza dealing with his stamina issues, so they handwaved it. Not that big of a deal.
Also want to point out, mental training has been shown in Dragonball since the beginning. Tien is a master of it and Picollo does it consistently. Hell, Goku and Gohan recently did it in super when him and Goku did a small tournament in their minds with Goku being Krillin. Lol...it also happened in the manga in Super during one of the first episodes when Goku stopped Lawning and conjured up cell and Frieza in a mental battle. Frieza training in hell should not be questioned.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeEither he's conditioning Frieza into thinking he's weaker so that Frieza will let his guard down . . . or Goku decided to job for yet another member of universe 7. 😕
Did Goku even go SSJB when he was inside it? Didn't look like it to me, though he still stalemated Frieza afterward in a brief spar, but if Frieza could escape it then so should he have been able to.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
We're talking about a dude who is literally strung up and actively tortured in hell. Not to mention that if such training were indeed possible for him, it makes you wonder why he never opted to do so during the 15 prior years he had been strung up for (as far as they know) the rest of eternity. But I digress. The writers don't want to be bogged down by actively having to shape the story around Frieza dealing with his stamina issues, so they handwaved it. Not that big of a deal.
Him being tortured is the perfect reason for doing mental training. There is nothing shown in DBZ to make us believe he couldn't do it. This showing proves that he can. Your question about him not doing it in the past is the same kind of question asking why didn't Goku and Gohan do this before instead of showing us in Super. The answer to that question is, they didn't need to or want to. It's not like we had a camera following Frieza his entire career. We don't know what he could have done from the beginning of his birth until now. The only time we saw Frieza was during his time on Namek. Can you please give me a time during the Namek saga where he could've utilized this? There has been a lot of new things popping up in Super. It's best not to question it...just accept it and learn from it. I had no questions about Dabura spit turning people to stone, did you?
Question, what other way do you think they shouldve had Frieza deal with his stamina issues. I'm sure if he broke out of the trap in hell, a lot of you all would question it and ask why he didn't do that before. DBS is in a lose lose situation with some people here (not counting CDTM because he obviously like the show, he is hiding behind words).
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Did Goku even go SSJB when he was inside it? Didn't look like it to me, though he still stalemated Frieza afterward in a brief spar, but if Frieza could escape it then so should he have been able to.
He probably couldn't go Blue due to the energy surrounding him. It still makes Frieza look good because Frieza was able to power up while the energy was on him.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Did Goku even go SSJB when he was inside it? Didn't look like it to me, though he still stalemated Frieza afterward in a brief spar, but if Frieza could escape it then so should he have been able to.
I thought it was Goku trying to escape without transforming.
That tells me how strong Goku thinks of himself.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Frieza and Goku are nearly God of Destruction level. At least, nearly Sidra level. Frieza is ridiculously powerful.
No way, they had trouble with only a "little" destruction energy. A GoD could bust out a lot more.
Funny how it didn't actually "destroy" them as advertised, though, just trapped them.
Originally posted by carver9I don't remember Goku/Goku getting substantially more powerful or using their mind battle as anything more than a means to ascertain how Krillin would do in a match against Basil.
Him being tortured is the perfect reason for doing mental training. There is nothing shown in DBZ to make us believe he couldn't do it. This showing proves that he can. Your question about him not doing it in the past is the same kind of question asking why didn't Goku and Gohan do this before instead of showing us in Super. The answer to that question is, they didn't need to or want to. It's not like we had a camera following Frieza his entire career. We don't know what he could have done from the beginning of his birth until now. The only time we saw Frieza was during his time on Namek. Can you please give me a time during the Namek saga where he could've utilized this?
Question: Suppose that during the events of the Cell games, Goku forfeits the match, but instead of picking Gohan to replace him, he picks Yamcha. Further suppose Yamcha, out of nowhere, suddenly goes Super Saiyan 2, explains that he secretly used the dragon balls two years ago to have the dragon make him a saiyan, and that he secretly snuck in the time chamber to train. Further suppose that Yamcha then goes on to defeat Cell and end the story arc. Would your response be "There is nothing in DBZ to make us believe Yamcha couldn't make this wish" and "We don't know what he could have done off screen for the past three years!"
There has been a lot of new things popping up in Super. It's best not to question it...just accept it and learn from it. I had no questions about Dabura spit turning people to stone, did you?I don't really question it beyond simply taking note of it (hence me saying "but whatever" as well as "not that big a deal"😉. Hell, I predicted this very thing a couple of pages back. I know exactly why they did it.
Question, what other way do you think they shouldve had Frieza deal with his stamina issues.Personally, I would have never given Frieza "stamina issues" in the first place back in ROF. 😉 But if I'm having to work with the material I'm given, I wouldn't have addressed it beyond simply making Frieza mindful of the limitations of his new form. What Frieza really brings to the table, as far as we the viewers are concerned, isn't his raw power, but his treacherous agenda and desire to muck things up for everybody, including the gods. Frieza's real appeal here is his intent and desire to pull the strings from behind the scenes, which this episode did a great job demonstrating. That's my two cents anyway.
DBS is in a lose lose situation with some people here (not counting CDTM because he obviously like the show, he is hiding behind words).Dude, I gave the episode a 7/10. That's two points above average. Not exactly a "lose/lose."
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I don't remember Goku/Goku getting substantially more powerful or using their mind battle as anything more than a means to ascertain how Krillin would do in a match against Basil.Question: Suppose that during the events of the Cell games, Goku forfeits the match, but instead of picking Gohan to replace him, he picks Yamcha. Further suppose Yamcha, out of nowhere, suddenly goes Super Saiyan 2, explains that he secretly used the dragon balls two years ago to have the dragon make him a saiyan, and that he secretly snuck in the time chamber to train. Further suppose that Yamcha then goes on to defeat Cell and end the story arc. Would your response be "There is nothing in DBZ to make us believe Yamcha couldn't make this wish" and "We don't know what he could have done off screen for the past three years!"
I don't really question it beyond simply taking note of it (hence me saying "but whatever" as well as "not that big a deal"😉. Hell, I predicted this very thing a couple of pages back. I know exactly why they did it.
Personally, I would have never given Frieza "stamina issues" in the first place back in ROF. 😉 But if I'm having to work with the material I'm given, I wouldn't have addressed it beyond simply making Frieza mindful of the limitations of his new form. What Frieza really brings to the table, as far as we the viewers are concerned, isn't his raw power, but his treacherous agenda and desire to muck things up for everybody, including the gods. Frieza's real appeal here is his intent and desire to pull the strings from behind the scenes, which this episode did a great job demonstrating. That's my two cents anyway.
Dude, I gave the episode a 7/10. That's two points above average. Not exactly a "lose/lose."
Goku used his mind battles as training. Piccolo became more powerful by meditation and using mind training...same with Tien. It has always been there...even during regular dragonball. I see no harm in him knowing something that even children knows of. It's like me asking how did Frieza learn how to shoot Kai blast during his first appearance.
You're going over board with your Yamcha question. We are talking about Frieza knowing a technique kids knew of. I would say him using telekinesis is>>>meditation.
You just blowing it off and not explaining how Frieda mastered his ability make things a lot worse, especially with us knowing he is in hell trapped in a bubble. An explanation is needed and what they gave was perfect. To each his own. Don't think anyone else will question it.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Frieza and Goku are nearly God of Destruction level. At least, nearly Sidra level. Frieza is ridiculously powerful.
Nope. Far from it. Golden Frieza controlling that ball and was really exhausted after it. And that was really only a small portion of Sidra power. It was the contrary actually... it showed how much Beerus is beyond of them.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Did Goku even go SSJB when he was inside it? Didn't look like it to me, though he still stalemated Frieza afterward in a brief spar, but if Frieza could escape it then so should he have been able to.
Goku with all his power would trash Frieza.
Sidra destroys them both simultaneously.
Fixing his stamina issue aside, I would've assumed Frieza would naturally have more stamina now anyway since he's dead, which worked well with Goku being able to hold the SSJ3 form longer during the Buu arc. Being dead = the body can take more
Sidra seems like the weakest GoD regardless of how he compares to Goku and them, yeah.
And Rou said out of fear "Like that will be easy" still implying Sidra wins. Sidra wasn't worried at all about Freeza. And who cares what out of fear the worst Kai ever says.
We have two facts... a very small portion of Sidra energy made Freeza exhausted. Second, base Goku couldn't save himself at all.
I would like to see Jiren crushing Frieza.
Originally posted by carver9And again, the issue is that Frieza was tortured, strung up, unable to use ki (or else he would've broken out beforehand) and didn't bother thinking this up in the preceding 15 years prior. He just suddenly and conveniently did this . . . just in the nick of time for the universe threatening tournament. Textbook plot contrivance.
Goku used his mind battles as training. Piccolo became more powerful by meditation and using mind training...same with Tien. It has always been there...even during regular dragonball. I see no harm in him knowing something that even children knows of. It's like me asking how did Frieza learn how to shoot Kai blast during his first appearance.
You're going over board with your Yamcha question. We are talking about Frieza knowing a technique kids knew of. I would say him using telekinesis is>>>meditation.The Yamcha question serves to illustrate that we 100% agree that just because "there is nothing in DBZ that could make us believe X couldn't happen" or "We don't know what character X could've done offscreen", it doesn't justify something from a writing standpoint. You gotta make it believable and you've gotta keep it from being too contrived.
You just blowing it off and not explaining how Frieda mastered his ability make things a lot worseOn account of the fact that I never actually said that Frieza mastering his ability makes things a lot worse. I said whatever and not that big a deal. I then went on to give this episode a good score. It was silly, but not something that made me suggest "THIS SHOW IS ABOMINATION!" as you seem to be implying.
It's like if I said I felt Frieza's golden glow should've been maybe 3.5% brighter, you would've acted like I kicked your cat and snarled that Frieza was truly IMMACULATE! 😕
Don't think anyone else will question it.I dunno. I found MasakoX's brief jab at it pretty funny and spot on. 😂 And like me, he liked the episode as well.