Originally posted by NewGuy01I guess my point is that the difference between SSJ3 and SSJG is somewhere in the ballpark of 70%, judging by the numbers we've been given so far.
Not really, I'm just glad they're giving us usable numbers now.So Bills at somewhere between 4%-10% power is in the ballpark of one-shotting SSJ3 Goku, Ultimate Gohan, and Majin Buu.
Ridiculous numbers still in play at this point, tbh.
Even I thought it would be more significant than that.
Not really. We saw that Bills as he was against Goku/Buu/Gohan was getting a pretty good fight out of Vegeta, and once he upped to 10% he flattened him with a tap.
The Bills that was *utterly destroying* the Z-fighters was a *lot* weaker than 10% Bills.
SSJG Goku was six times stronger than even that level of power, 60%. I'd be surprised if SSJ3 was even 2% of Bill's power.
Even if Beerus used less than 1% power against SSJ3 Goku, it was still enough to trounce him easily. We know he only used 70% power against SSJG Goku, and it was still enough to trounce him easily. IOW, the difference between SSJ3 and SSJG was around 70%.
That may not be an exact figure, but it should be close. Of course, DBS may end up retconning the 70% figure to something else entirely. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
I guess my point is that the difference between SSJ3 and SSJG is somewhere in the ballpark of 70%, judging by the numbers we've been given so far.
Originally posted by bbrem123
Is it safe to say SSJ3 Goku and enraged Vegeta surpassed Mystic Gohan in power. If they are then that is a pretty large power boost in such a short time.Is DBS a continuation of the anime or manga?
Of course but you have to remember, that's all Goku does is train and Vegeta, well, the only reason he was able to do what he did was due to a rage boost. Something that tends to happen with Saiyans.
Don't think Goku surpassed him/Gohan by a lot though, if at all. Bills defeated both effortlessly. So we do not know if Goku surpassed or is even on Gohan level at Super Saiyan 3. What we do know is Vegeta is above both though.
Originally posted by AstnerPrecisely. 👆
I've not watched Dragon Ball Super, but from what I've read on the forum we have the following propositions to work with. [list=1][*]SSJ Vegeta (enraged) > SSJ3 Goku,[*]SSJ Vegeta (enraged) < Beerus (10%),
[*]SSJG Goku < Beerus (70%).
[/list]Assuming that the difference between 2 and 3 are similar then SSJG Goku should be 7 times stronger than SSJ Vegeta (enraged) which in turn was indeterminably stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Which would mean that the SSJG form made Goku at least 7 times stronger than in his SSJ3 form. Beerus at 70% should be 7 times stronger than at 10%.
IOW, the difference between SSJ3 and SSJG is less than the difference between SSJ1 and SSJ3.
Originally posted by bbrem123By this time in the story, I'd say SSJ3 Goku was definitely stronger than Mystic Gohan.
Is it safe to say SSJ3 Goku and enraged Vegeta surpassed Mystic Gohan in power. If they are then that is a pretty large power boost in such a short time.Is DBS a continuation of the anime or manga?
It is a continuation of the manga and anime.
Originally posted by Galan007
IOW, the difference between SSJ3 and SSJG is less than the difference between SSJ1 and SSJ3.
But if we assume that enraged SSJ Vegeta was equal to SSJ3 Goku then the power increase would be seven-fold, which of course is less than the eight-fold increase from SSJ to SSJ3 given by the Daizenshū.
Beerus did say that rage-boosted Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku. However, the difference between them wasn't implied to be vast. If it required 10% of Beerus' power to own Vegeta, then 5% to own Goku seems like a reasonable compromise... Especially given that both Whis and Beerus were impressed by Goku's power. /shrug
Dig the avatar, btw. 👆
Originally posted by Astner
Not necessarily. For all we know enraged SSJ Vegeta could've been twice, thrice or 100 times as strong as SSJ3 Goku in which case the power increase from SSJ3 to SSJG would be 14, 21 or 700 times (respectively).But if we assume that enraged SSJ Vegeta was equal to SSJ3 Goku then the power increase would be seven-fold, which of course is less than the eight-fold increase from SSJ to SSJ3 given by the Daizenshū.
👆
Originally posted by Galan007If that is the case are fillers in the anime now canon? They are really blurring the line for what is canon and what isnt ha
Precisely. 👆IOW, the difference between SSJ3 and SSJG is less than the difference between SSJ1 and SSJ3.
By this time in the story, I'd say SSJ3 Goku was definitely stronger than Mystic Gohan.
It is a continuation of the manga and anime.
We don't know how much of a difference in power between Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God exist. If we are using Beerus as a measuring stick then that doesn't resolve anything since Beerus took Goku out with a touch. The reason we know Vegeta was significantly above Super Saiyan 3 Goku is due to Beerus punching Vegeta clean in his face and Vegeta brushing it off. Let's compare. Super Saiyan 3 Goku gets loved touched and koed, Vegeta getting punched clean in the face and brushing it off. Seems like a huge difference imo.
Originally posted by bbrem123Nah, fillers are still fillers.
If that is the case are fillers in the anime now canon? They are really blurring the line for what is canon and what isnt ha
Originally posted by carver9The difference between SSJ3 and SSJG is around 70%. Maybe a little more. Maybe a little less. It's in that ballpark, though. What we do know for sure is that SSJG is 7x> rage-boost Vegeta.
We don't know how much of a difference in power between Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God exist. If we are using Beerus as a measuring stick then that doesn't resolve anything since Beerus took Goku out with a touch. The reason we know Vegeta was significantly above Super Saiyan 3 Goku is due to Beerus punching Vegeta clean in his face and Vegeta brushing it off. Let's compare. Super Saiyan 3 Goku gets loved touched and koed, Vegeta getting punched clean in the face and brushing it off. Seems like a huge difference imo.
Anywho, I'd say SSJG is between 8-10x SSJ3.
Originally posted by Galan007
Even if Beerus used less than 1% power against SSJ3 Goku, it was still enough to trounce him easily. We know he only used 70% power against SSJG Goku, and it was still enough to trounce him easily. IOW, the difference between SSJ3 and SSJG was around 70%.That may not be an exact figure, but it should be close. Of course, DBS may end up retconning the 70% figure to something else entirely. /shrug
If Beerus used less than 1% of his power against SSJ3, and 70% against SSJG with similar results, that's not a 70% increase from SSJ3 to SSJG, that's 70% of Beerus' power. That figure would make SSJG 7,000% SSJ3. Furthermore, you're talking as if SSJ3 Goku and Beerus were evenly matched; both him and Mystic Gohan were taken out with 1-2 blows each.
I'm not claiming that 1% figure is accurate, however. I'm thinking Beerus was using anywhere between 3% and 6% of his power against SSJ3 Goku, Mystic Gohan, and Majin Buu. The fact that he trounced Mystic Gohan just as easily as he did SSJ3 Goku goes to show how vast the power difference is between 3-6% Beerus and Goku. I could easily see it being more than a 3x difference with that in mind, honestly.
In the case of SSJG, he was clearly < 70% Beerus (He was 60%), but he wasn't trounced nearly as badly. His godly power just ran out, and that was that. As of RoF we both agree that his SSJG(SSJ) was in the realm of 80-90% of Beerus' power, so I'm not sure why we're focusing on the first movie.
Anyway, I'd wager that 100% Beerus is upwards of 100x SSJ3 Goku, but not much higher than that. So we're not truly getting close to those upper GT levels even if we do have God Goku and God Vegeta fuse, you were right.
Originally posted by NewGuy01Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm speaking from the perspective of Beerus' power-output.
If Beerus used less than 1% of his power against SSJ3, and 70% against SSJG with similar results, that's not a 70% increase from SSJ3 to SSJG, that's 70% of Beerus' power. That figure would make SSJG 7,000% SSJ3.
ie. the power he expended to own SSJ3 and SSJG was a difference of <70%.
Originally posted by NewGuy01And when Beerus used 10% power, he owned Vegeta... So even rage-boosted Vegeta <10% Beerus... But if we assume Vegeta, at the peak of his rage, was on-par with 10% Beerus, it means 100% Beerus is about 7x> Vegeta(rage-boost.)
Furthermore, you're talking as if SSJ3 Goku and Beerus were evenly matched; both him and Mystic Gohan were taken out with 1-2 blows each.
Originally posted by NewGuy01I would agree with 6%, primarily because of how impressed Beerus and Whis were with SSJ3.
I'm not claiming that 1% figure is accurate, however. I'm thinking Beerus was using anywhere between 3% and 6% of his power against SSJ3 Goku
Originally posted by NewGuy01Agreed.
In the case of SSJG, he was clearly < 70% Beerus (He was 60%), but he wasn't trounced nearly as badly. His godly power just ran out, and that was that. As of RoF we both agree that his SSJG(SSJ) was in the realm of 80-90% of Beerus' power, so I'm not sure why we're focusing on the first movie.
Originally posted by NewGuy01Yeah. Personally I think the 100x differential is too high, but even using that, they wouldn't even be remotely close to the upper-echelon levels we saw in GT... Which I'm totally fine with(GT was ridiculous.)
Anyway, I'd wager that 100% Beerus is upwards of 100x SSJ3 Goku, but not much higher than that. So we're not truly getting close to those upper GT levels even if we do have God Goku and God Vegeta fuse, you were right.
My problem with having SSJG as 7-10x SSJ3 is the following:
So with the new episode, we see Beerus ramp up his power to 10%, which means his normal fighting state when he fought against Goku, Buu, and Gohan were well below that.
How much below that? So much so that when fighting at that undefined level, Hyper!Vegeta was to some degree able to go blow-for-blow with him. SSJ3 Goku and Mystic Gohan were completely trounced with single blows by that level of power, and SSJ2 Vegeta beforehand was repeatedly floored with a glance.
Then when Beerus ramped up to 10%, Hyper!Vegeta was dismissed with a tap. The power difference between 10% Beerus and SSJ3 Goku is clearly unreal, but you're treating it as a 1.5x-ish difference in your calculations. To me it looks more like:
10% Beerus >> ???% Beerus > Hyper!Vegeta >> Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Goku
3 >'s is in the ballpark of a two-shot K.O for scale.
SSJG is 6x 10% Beerus. I really can't see it being any less than 30x SSJ3.
Do you remember when Goku fought Recoome/Burter/Jeice? The difference between them was only about 2x, and he owned them casually, with 1-2 strikes.
There are several other examples, but I'm sure you see where I'm going with this... In DB, a difference of 2x(or less) is enough to trounce your opponent with lulz-worthy ease. That's why it's hard for me to buy the 100x> thing. /shrug