Dragon Ball Discussion Thread

@Supreme

The Multiverse have an end, the void doesn't. Affecting the Multiverse is an amazing ft but affecting something that is limitless in size, not only affecting it but shaking it "while not even close to your full power" is on another level imo.

Your Odin scan means nothing because in the same scan as I've already said and I think it's taken out of context tbh. I don't even know why you posted the Galactus scan because no where does mentions what I asked for. Jiren was WALKING and affected infinity, casually.

Your fts are good but infinity Is different than finite. Huge difference. I don't think Jiren is above the Angels but he would annihilate the G.O.D.

A serious Jiren would kill Thanos with the IG.

He JUST said some of those realms are "Beyond infinite".

The Multiverse doesn't actually have an end, though. At least, when we talk about this degree of infinity (there are greater levels of infinity, such as the Beyond Realm). But the Multiverse is literally beyond infinite:

And again, the characters don't even know if Jiren actually shook the entire world of void. If the narrator said it, I'd be inclined to agree, but when all you have to back up your case is Android 18's opinion (no reason to believe she'd know if the entire world of void is shaking,) then your argument falls apart.

Jiren can't actually, literally shake infinity. Hell, he can't actually shake the world of void, because it's just nothingness, without time or space. You can't actually "shake" it:

And if you're going to argue Daishinkan's statement is fallible, then not only do we have nothing to go on regarding the World of Void's actual size, but then I hang you by your own words by saying Android 17's opinion is fallible, and therefore worthless.

Originally posted by cdtm
He JUST said some of those realms are "Beyond infinite".

👆

If literal concepts can't wrench the IG from Thanos, no reason to believe Jiren, or anyone in DBS, could.

Anyways, i just hope this isn't a roundabout way of canonizing the Genkei Dama absorption movie cheese.

As a one time thing to activate his "Totally not Ruuysui Sekuken", ok fine. Don't make it a component of the tech though..

I liked these two episodes overall. Good animation (very limited use of reused shots aside from that bit with Goku vs Jiren from the opening), good BGM and a transformation for once that isn't simply as one dimensional as giving Goku a "bigger number."

The only problems I really had with these episodes were minor (Krillin having any idea about super saiyan and the spirit bomb or that Goku's body is able to withstand KKB x 20) or issues that having been plaguing this arc (and super) since the beginning. Would've rather Jiren been built up over the course of multiple arcs before we finally got to see him fight. As noted in a couple of videos, Toriyama and writers here always seem to blow their wad at the first opportunity as opposed to having multilayered build-up.

Still, this episode indicates some serious potential for this arc. Potential which I'm certain will never happen, but . . .

1) The end of "transformations." The good thing about the ultra instincts form is that it's still Base Goku (just without all the hair color crap) and that it's actually a form with some actual characteristic besides "Goku has a bigger number!" The ability to react without thinking is something Whis has been alluding to for some time, so that's a positive step and hopefully the death of Super Saiyan transformations. After this arc, maybe Goku does away with transformations entirely and focuses on being as strong as Jiren and Beerus in his base.

2) Raw power is not the answer. Perhaps (and I know this is extremely unlikely, but one can hope) Goku will take the effectiveness of this new technique to heart and come to the realization that it has been a massive mistake on his part to have maintained a one-dimensional moveset since Z began. That there's more ways to win a fight than having a bigger number than the other guy. Hearkening back to his DB era days, Goku then goes to pull off an 11th hour victory via having found a way to beat Jiren using an ingenius use of skill/technique/ki-control.

Even when something happens in DBS, nothing is really happening. Still think this tournament is stake-less which undermines the otherwise watchable action now.

Originally posted by cdtm
FOREIGN OBJECTS!

Right at the start, the fat gumball gets transformed with outside objects. How is that any different then potera earings.

Just as they retconned Beerus to being far above SSG, SSB and SSB KK, they'll retcon him to being above Jiren in the next arc so they can promote their Goku vs Beerus rematch in the finale.

Jiren is above everyone but the Angels and Zeno right now.

Very impressive.

He got his ass handed to him.

He has a while to go.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Multiverse doesn't actually have an end, though. At least, when we talk about this degree of infinity (there are greater levels of infinity, such as the Beyond Realm). But the Multiverse is literally beyond infinite:

And again, the characters don't even know if Jiren actually shook the entire world of void. If the narrator said it, I'd be inclined to agree, but when all you have to back up your case is Android 18's opinion (no reason to believe she'd know if the entire world of void is shaking,) then your argument falls apart.

Jiren can't actually, literally shake infinity. Hell, he can't actually shake the world of void, because it's just nothingness, without time or space. You can't actually "shake" it:

And if you're going to argue Daishinkan's statement is fallible, then not only do we have nothing to go on regarding the World of Void's actual size, but then I hang you by your own words by saying Android 17's opinion is fallible, and therefore worthless.

Ok now you're resorting to low balling. Hate when people resort to this. Please start from Dragon ball all the way to Super and discredit every single thing that has been said about power output. Vegeta blast wasn't going to destroy Earth. Frieza first tranformation wasn't in the millions. Frieza didn't become more powerful when he received his cyborg enhance. This is getting ridiculous. Jiren shook infinity.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I liked these two episodes overall. Good animation (very limited use of reused shots aside from that bit with Goku vs Jiren from the opening), good BGM and a transformation for once that isn't simply as one dimensional as giving Goku a "bigger number."

The only problems I really had with these episodes were minor (Krillin having any idea about super saiyan and the spirit bomb or that Goku's body is able to withstand KKB x 20) or issues that having been plaguing this arc (and super) since the beginning. Would've rather Jiren been built up over the course of multiple arcs before we finally got to see him fight. As noted in a couple of videos, Toriyama and writers here always seem to blow their wad at the first opportunity as opposed to having multilayered build-up.

Still, this episode indicates some serious potential for this arc. Potential which I'm certain will never happen, but . . .

1) The end of "transformations." The good thing about the ultra instincts form is that it's still Base Goku (just without all the hair color crap) and that it's actually a form with some actual characteristic besides "Goku has a bigger number!" The ability to react without thinking is something Whis has been alluding to for some time, so that's a positive step and hopefully the death of Super Saiyan transformations. After this arc, maybe Goku does away with transformations entirely and focuses on being as strong as Jiren and Beerus in his base.

2) Raw power is not the answer. Perhaps (and I know this is extremely unlikely, but one can hope) Goku will take the effectiveness of this new technique to heart and come to the realization that it has been a massive mistake on his part to have maintained a one-dimensional moveset since Z began. That there's more ways to win a fight than having a bigger number than the other guy. Hearkening back to his DB era days, Goku then goes to pull off an 11th hour victory via having found a way to beat Jiren using an ingenius use of skill/technique/ki-control.

Dragonball is famous for speaking narration through the characters which is the reason Krillin knew.

Originally posted by carver9

What fights has been in the air?

Originally posted by carver9
Ok now you're resorting to low balling. Hate when people resort to this. Please start from Dragon ball all the way to Super and discredit every single thing that has been said about power output. Vegeta blast wasn't going to destroy Earth. Frieza first tranformation wasn't in the millions. Frieza didn't become more powerful when he received his cyborg enhance. This is getting ridiculous. Jiren shook infinity.

?

Asking for evidence isn't lowballing. Those other things you mentioned? They're stated and shown to be the case in guidebooks, narrators, out of universe statements, multiple character opinions, etc. Beerus vs. SSG Goku being universal is stated by various reputable characters + the narrator, plus we actually see it. Jiren shaking infinity is literally one fallible character statement, and we don't see it.

The idea that Android 18 has gnostication of all the going-ons of the World of Void seems a bit far-fetched.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
That's all fine and dandy, but are you disputing the fact that Beerus' overall power has gone through several retcons since his introduction as a Dragon Ball character? If not, we got nothing else to talk about. 🙂

The 70% could only work without a retcon if it had a World of Warcraft like leveling system where it takes way more experience points to hit the next level.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
?

Asking for evidence isn't lowballing. Those other things you mentioned? They're stated and shown to be the case in guidebooks, narrators, out of universe statements, multiple character opinions, etc. Beerus vs. SSG Goku being universal is stated by various reputable characters + the narrator, plus we actually see it. Jiren shaking infinity is literally one fallible character statement, and we don't see it.

The idea that Android 18 has gnostication of all the going-ons of the World of Void seems a bit far-fetched.

The narration is said through the characters. This discussion is done. Just know that Jiren AND Goku shook infinity.

gee, that's a neat trick. all character statements are indisputable facts. thanks for enlightening us on this, carv, we'll all keep it in mind. 🙂

I know I certainly will. 👆

Infinite pages, right?

The author using that word looks pretty intentional to me. 👆