Originally posted by bbrem123Goku was getting more and more acclimated with the form as the fight progressed, like he's done with literally every other powerup he's obtained in DBS. It was also stated that Goku was super-duper motivated because he was fighting for his friends/family, which also played a big factor in his increasing power(we've seen that multiple times in DBS as well -- just look at Vegeta, lol.)
Also does MUI give the user unlimited power or something. They kept showing Goku getting right back up stronger than ever (seemingly taking no damage even after all of Jiren's assaults. Jiren also commented on how Goku's stamina never diminished.
Jiren was just surprised that Goku still had the stamina left to continue fighting him(Goku was already fatigued/exhausted before he even obtained MUI, remember, and Jiren delivered some HUGE hits in their fight.) But ultimately Goku was more powerful than Jiren, so the latter's attacks wouldn't be sufficient to put him down for the count anyway.
Ah true. I completely forgot about all previous fights Goku has been in lol.
It was just a wtf moment for Jiren trying to understand how Goku made it this far.
It makes sense now why Jiren was so damn cocky. He was basically infinitely more powerful then SSB KKx20 Goku lol. He was probably thinking there is zero chance anybody could reach his power in the span of the ToP lol. Hell it would take millions of years for other to reach this power. Just look at Beerus.
Spoiler:
Jiren and MUI Goku are not that far apart. I would still rate Jiren higher because Goku couldn't keep his MUI up till he won and Jiren could have finished him off were it not for Freeza.
And yeah Jiren went from interesting to fullsh!t in one episode. Hit is still the main man from DBS and DB > DBZ > DB GT > DBS
Originally posted by bbrem123If Goku hadn't mastered UI, Jiren would've never needed to use anywhere near his full power, tbh. He was trouncing everyone else(inc. stage 3 n00b-UI Goku) while immensely suppressed.
It makes sense now why Jiren was so damn cocky. He was basically infinitely more powerful then SSB KKx20 Goku lol. He was probably thinking there is zero chance anybody could reach his power in the span of the ToP lol. Hell it would take millions of years for other to reach this power. Just look at Beerus.
...And Jiren's full power was indeed an immense powerup over what he had displayed up to that point. He went from being rape-stomped by MUI Goku in one of the most one-sided beatings in the franchise, to actually being able to contend with MUI Goku quite well(until Goku went all-out, that is)... But again, it was still a HUGE powerup for Jiren.
It's unreal how much he had been holding back, tbh.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
People thought Jiren beating Goku legitimately would be dumb, but this is way worse tbh.Worst ending possible, in terms of storytelling imo.
Agreed. The episode was great (best fight of DB, period) but 17 being there, no, he has had enough screen time. I wouldve prefered this ending with Goku powering Jiren off of the cliff or Frieza even back stabbing Jiren off the cliff. Oh well.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbeNah. MUI Goku legitimately beat full power Jiren -- Jiren outright stated as much, and had completely acquiesced to his defeat. Goku reverting back to base for plot reasons before he could actually knock Jiren out of the arena, doesn't change the fact that he was superior.Spoiler:
Jiren and MUI Goku are not that far apart. I would still rate Jiren higher because Goku couldn't keep his MUI up till he won and Jiren could have finished him off were it not for Freeza.
And as I mentioned above: Goku's stamina was almost completely drained when he originally obtained MUI, while Jiren had sustained FAR less damage(almost none) -- yet Goku STILL managed to win.
So yeah, MUI Goku > full power Jiren. No doubt about it.
Considering how fatigued Goku was from the get-go, along with the fact that he essentially two-pieced Jiren after getting serious, I'd say the difference between them is significant/decisive, tbh... Jiren can put up a fight, but Goku would stomp him every damn time.
That said, I'm curious to see how ep.131 plays out..? Because frankly, the ONLY way Freeza and #17 could stand any sort of chance against Jiren, is if he expended nearly every iota of his power against Goku and is almost entirely powerless/depleted now... OR #17 surpasses his limits again, and Freeza obtains a 6th form -- neither would surprise me at this point, tbh. ermm
Originally posted by Galan007
Nah. MUI Goku legitimately beat full power Jiren -- Jiren outright stated as much, and had acquiesced to his inevitable defeat in the end. Goku reverting back to base for plot reasons before he could actually knock Jiren out of the arena, doesn't change the fact that Goku was superior.Moreover, Goku's stamina was almost completely drained when he originally obtained MUI, while Jiren had sustained FAR less damage(almost none) -- yet Goku STILL managed to win.
So yeah, MUI Goku > full power Jiren. No doubt about it.
👆
Again, like on Namek Goku became almost 1700 times more powerful, finally overcoming even 100% Freeza, who, at the beginning of the saga, was so far ahead of everyone else that he was capable to casually bust in his 1st form a planet with 10 times the gravitational force of the Earth (at the time, the strongest benchmark in terms of destructive capability was SS Vegeta's maximum power GG capable to blow up the Earth).
Only that, if possible, in the ToP the power increase is even more bloated and extreme, and we were starting from a being (SSB KKx20 Goku), who was already not that far at all from God of Destruction tier.
I repeat it once again: MUI Goku is OP af in terms of raw power.
Originally posted by Galan007
Considering how fatigued Goku was from the get-go, along with the fact that he essentially two-pieced Jiren after getting serious, I'd say the difference between them is significant/decisive, tbh... Jiren can put up a fight, but Goku would stomp him every damn time.That said, I'm curious to see how ep.131 plays out..? Because frankly, the ONLY way Freeza and #17 could stand any sort of chance against Jiren, is if he expended nearly every iota of his power against Goku and is almost entirely powerless/depleted now... OR #17 surpasses his limits again, and Freeza obtains a 6th form -- neither would surprise me at this point, tbh. ermm
Then we see Jiren powering up again the preview....haermm
Originally posted by Galan007
Nah. MUI Goku legitimately beat full power Jiren -- Jiren outright stated as much, and had completely acquiesced to his defeat. Goku reverting back to base for plot reasons before he could actually knock Jiren out of the arena, doesn't change the fact that he was superior.And as I mentioned above: Goku's stamina was almost completely drained when he originally obtained MUI, while Jiren had sustained FAR less damage(almost none) -- yet Goku STILL managed to win.
So yeah, MUI Goku > full power Jiren. No doubt about it.
MUI Gokus >= Jiren, at least for some time. Sure it's plot but it's also a weakness if he can't keep up the MUI for a longer time. Jiren can fight him on equal terms for a time, if it's long enough till Gokus reverts back it's a win for him. This time it was long enough and Jiren "won" as legit as Goku "won" while having the UI, means no one won, the fight continues in the next episode and Goku needed Freeza and 17 to safe him.
Originally posted by EstacadoThe previews actually make it look like #17 and Freeza are slapping Jiren around pretty good at some points, which suggests he's weakened AF.
They will keep him busy until Goku returns........and uses Ultra Instinct Evolution....Then we see Jiren powering up again the preview....haermm
Here's how I'd like to see it end:
-Goku is out for nearly the entire episode, and only pops-up at the last second to pull Jiren out of the ring -- leaving #17 and Freeza on the field.
-U7 wins.
-Because there are 2 contestants from U7 left on the field, the Zen-Ohs decree that the MVP will get to have the wish.
-#17 is chosen as the clear MVP.
-Freeza freaks out and tries to attack the Omni-Kings. He is "squished", and since he is already dead, this unmakes/perma-kills him.
-#17 wishes for his cruise with the fam.
-ToP ends.
I'd still like to see the other Universes resurrected, because there were a lot of great characters in them(esp. U6), but I don't see it happening at this point. 🙁
...Unless it turns out that the entire thing was just a ruse used to help 'motivate' everyone into giving it their all, and no universes were actually destroyed. Boy can you even imagine the backlash that'd cause? g007_teehee
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbeEh, wut?
MUI Gokus >= Jiren, at least for some time. Sure it's plot but it's also a weakness if he can't keep up the MUI for a longer time. Jiren can fight him on equal terms for a time, if it's long enough till Gokus reverts back it's a win for him. This time it was long enough and Jiren "won" as legit as Goku "won" while having the UI, means no one won, the fight continues in the next episode and Goku needed Freeza and 17 to safe him.
Goku beat Jiren, dude. Jiren himself literally stated as much after Goku two-pieced him:
You're trying to act like Goku reverting to base for plot reasons before he could blast Jiren out of the arena makes his victory any less clear... Don't be silly. srsly
Hell, if Goku wouldn't have hesitated to blast Jiren when he was already down, he could have easily eliminated him before reverting back to base... Easily.
Regardless, Goku legitimately beat Jiren in their fight... It's not even questionable.
Originally posted by Galan007
Eh, wut?Goku beat Jiren, dude. Jiren himself literally stated as much after Goku two-pieced him:
You're trying to act like Goku reverting to base for plot reasons before he could blast Jiren out of the arena makes his victory any less clear... Don't be silly. srsly
Hell, if Goku wouldn't have hesitated to blast Jiren when he was already down, he could have easily eliminated him before reverting back to base... Easily.
Regardless, Goku legitimately beat Jiren in their fight... It's not even questionable.
A question. Did Goku win the tournament at this moment and did Jiren lose or is the fight still open and victory not yet achieved?
Goku did not finish the fight, hence it was not over and that's all I said, Jiren was close enough in power to make it a fight, Goku reverted back as the toll was to great, Jiren could have killed him but Goku was saved by Freeza. Sure maybe Goku had enough juice in him to finish Jiren off at the moment of your scans, yet he didn't maybe he was out of power, as seen shortly after.
Originally posted by Galan007
You're being ridiculous.Goku didn't win the Tournament for obvious plot reasons, but HE STILL BEAT JIREN. Simple. 🙂
Imho he was superior to Jiren (although not far superior) for a short time, not long enough to win. Jiren was not done yet and has the power to get up and kill Goku, who on the other hand was taxed (by pushing himself above Jiren for a limited period of time) enough to be at Jirens mercy and needing help from Freeza.
Goku was "losing" all the time against Jiren yet was never really done and was able to compete. The fight is over when one closes the eyes shut.