Dragon Ball Discussion Thread

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
It was said too apparently that if anyone made a selfish wish, that Zeno would've erased the remaining universes, so good thing 17 wasn't still thinking about the cruise ship by that point I guess. It was kinda predictable, but welcomed outcome nonetheless.

I figured the universes would return, if only because the storytelling potential with them in existence is almost limitless. Never would have guessed it'd be #17 standing there at the end, though. 👆

On a sidenote: I am SO glad that they aren't treating MUI as a form Goku can access by just screaming really loud, like he does with every other transformation. They're keeping it special/mysterious, and it will only appear in times of great need. 👆

So, we came to the end of the trip.

Few points I'd like to make:

1) Nice ending and episode, I liked it
2) Whis and the other angels are serious, OP beasts...
3) Now think about the Grand Priest: once again, point 2) leads me to believe even more that the GP is the truly strongest being in all of DB, like also Galan said. Zeno is a living UN, true, but the Daishinkan at this point is really implied to be an almost all-powerful being.
4) Point 2 also helps to put once again into perspective how STRONG AND OP MUI Goku is. To surpass the tiers of Gods of Destruction and to master an ability that only Angels have truly justifies the definition of "strongest Goku in history".
5) Because of that, I am gald that MUI is not something that can happen anytime soon, so we won't have Goku spamming it on everyone and their mothers.
To keep the form what it truly is, i.e. something totally exceptional and almost Angel-like, it is fundamental for it not to be overused.
I thus hope that we won't see it in the upcomig movie, there's no need for it, really, as SSB KKx20 Goku should suffice against 99.9% of the living beings of the multiverse.

One final note to conclude my post: DBS proved once again how immense Son Goku and his story are. Dragon Ball came back after 30 years, times changed, people changed, yet, despite all of the flaws of Super (especially, but not only, at the beginning), it still attracted so many people around the world and managed to surpass again all the other anime. Some loved it, some didn't like it, but everybody talked about it. This is the greatness of the original story and character that AT managed to create and a proof of the impact that Son Goku had and has on the fictional culture.

So thanks Goku and Dragon Ball, despite your last iteration of the show was far from being perfect, it was once again a great ride.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
3) Now think about the Grand Priest: once again, point 2) leads me to believe even more that the GP is the truly strongest being in all of DB, like also Galan said. Zeno is a living UN, true, but the Daishinkan at this point is really implied to be an almost all-powerful being.

I still believe Daishinkan is essentially the Whis to Zen-Oh's Beerus... But that's a story for another day.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
5) Because of that, I am gald that MUI is not something that can happen anytime soon, so we won't have Goku spamming it on everyone and their mothers.
To keep the form what it truly is, i.e. something totally exceptional and almost Angel-like, it is fundamental for it not to be overused.

That said, for Goku to reach MUI again, he'll have to face an opponent *at least* on Jiren's level, imo. So unless he starts running around picking fights with Hakaishin, it's unlikely MUI will return any time soon... And that's a good thing. 👆

Yea I want to see Goku grow in strength to rival Jiren without MUI. Also how the hell did Goku get back up and fight? wtf. Vegeta's comment about having no limits is legit I guess.

...Let alone still have the power left to be effective against Jiren. Crazy.

On that note, Freeza mindf*cking Jiren's self-conscious ass was a highlight for me(as was his TK FINALLY being effective, lol.)

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

I still believe Daishinkan is essentially the Whis to Zen-Oh's Beerus... But that's a story for another day.

The first time omen-UI appeared is when Goku absorbed the power of his Genki Dama(after SSB /w/ KKx20 had failed miserably.) The second time omen-UI appeared was against Kefla, who Whis reckoned was cranking out about the same energy as Goku's Genki Dama. The third time omen-UI appeared was against a version of Jiren who was so much more powerful than anyone/thing else he had encountered in the Tourney that it's staggering to think about. Only AFTER that...When Jiren pushed omen-UI to its very limits(and was beating it)...did Goku FINALLY reach MUI. What's more, each time Goku attained UI, he was already almost entirely depleted/exhausted from previous battle(s).

That said, for Goku to reach MUI again, he'll have to face an opponent *at least* on Jiren's level, imo. So unless he starts running around picking fights with Hakaishin, it's unlikely MUI will return any time soon... And that's a good thing. 👆

The really funny thing is in ALL of those cases, it would have been so easy to toss Goku out of the ring.

Should have taken Freeza's deal, other universes. Goku would have been OUT, just like speedy Gonzales mixed with Bugs Bunny.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Yea I want to see Goku grow in strength to rival Jiren without MUI.

Anywho, I feel like if Goku can't access UI at all then he didn't really 'master' it. I mean, even Beerus can enter an omen-esque iteration of UI at will... Apparently Goku cannot even do that. ermm

Originally posted by Galan007
Really? That would be a gargantuan increase for Goku to attain without MUI. Personally, I hope we don't see his power increase that much without it. /shrug

Anywho, I feel like if Goku can't access UI at all then he didn't really 'master' it... I mean, even Beerus can enter an 'omen-esque' iteration of UI at will. ermm

I agree. Jiren should remain the strongest mortal being in the multiverse, reaching heights only near unattainable amps can match. And only with a great cost, as we saw happen to Goku.

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

I still believe Daishinkan is essentially the Whis to Zen-Oh's Beerus... But that's a story for another day.

AS for all the talk about Zeno being like, oh we would have destroyed everyone had the wish been selfish.. But uh, Zeno you wanted to destroy the universes before the tournament was even thought about. It really makes me think that Grand Priest just manipulates what he wants Zeno to do.

I think that Zeno does to Grand Priest what he does to everyone else and does it effortlessly (raw power).

I did like this ending episode 👆

Originally posted by Kento
😆 This is the one thing you and me fully agree on.

AS for all the talk about Zeno being like, oh we would have destroyed everyone had the wish been selfish.. But uh, Zeno you wanted to destroy the universes before the tournament was even thought about. It really makes me think that Grand Priest just manipulates what he wants Zeno to do.

The best way to think of it is Zeno realized the tournament was an easy way to have a fun time while also giving the Gods below incentive to raise their mortal levels by letting them experience first hand what erasure was like. I actually think Goku is slightly helping Zeno mellow out a little bit.

I don’t think Zeno is dumb though. The first time we see him he is chastising Beerus and Champa for shirking their responsibilities as destroyers. He does seem to be the one running the multiverse.

Originally posted by Kento
It really makes me think that Grand Priest just manipulates what he wants Zeno to do.

Zen-Oh: "I'm going to destroy absolutely everyone/thing in the universes."
Daishinkan: "That's fine, but don't destroy the Angels."
Zen-Oh: "Kay."

Originally posted by Inedian
I think that Zeno does to Grand Priest what he does to everyone else and does it effortlessly (raw power).

👆

I mean, we already know Zen-Oh can squish all the angels on a whim. Not sure why Daishinkan would be any different.

Because Whis outright stated that Daishinkan is FAR more powerful than the 'normal' Guide Angels?

Whis also outright states that Zen-Oh is the most powerful being in existence, and seemingly the sole power capable of effortlessly squishing universes. 👆

Zen-Oh is ultimately beyond mere fighters like Daishinkan. Squish. 🙂

Whis typically doesn't factor Angels into the equation when he talks about things like that, though. I'm guessing it's because Angels are supposed to remain neutral and can never participate in 'actual' fights outside of training/sparring:
https://i.imgur.com/Y1tIh2W.jpg

...Which explains why Whis always seems to act like Beerus is the most powerful being in the universe, even though he himself is FAR above that level.

Same general thing applies to Zen-Oh and Daishinkan, imo. Much like Beerus commands Whis, Zen-Oh commands Daishinkan... I don't see Whis ever stating that the servant > the master, even if it were true... It's just not how Angels roll.

But again, that's just my opinion. 👆

I still want to see those Guards fight an Angel or something.

If we take that Top 5 comment and put GP as 5th, that would only theoretically put the Guards above GP, and Zeno. Well, assuming the Guards because they're the only ones that fit.

Zeno gets too many "Most powerful" statements to put him below the Grand Priest for me. He just seems easily manipulated, or simple if you will, which is why Grand Priest is needed to guide him.

The top 5 thing is gone.

The manga clarifies that Daishinkan is *the* strongest, period:

But again: it's unlikely that Whis would ever directly compare Daishinkan and Zen-Oh for reasons I mentioned above.

Interesting. Still want to see one of the Guards in action though. They looked like they were going to ruin Goku's day in the U6 tourney.

Same. 👆

Even though Zen-Oh shouldn't need guards, the fact that they are tasked with protecting him means they MUST be retardedly strong.