Do like how this all but confirms that Jiren is stronger than the lot of them wen UI isn't taken into account.
Also considering that chronologically Super only has 4 years left before it catches up to the End of Dragonball Z, I wonder what route would be explored and if Goten and Trunks will finally be aged up to fit their age group.
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
5) Because of that, I am gald that MUI is not something that can happen anytime soon, so we won't have Goku spamming it on everyone and their mothers.
To keep the form what it truly is, i.e. something totally exceptional and almost Angel-like, it is fundamental for it not to be overused.
I thus hope that we won't see it in the upcomig movie, there's no need for it, really, as SSB KKx20 Goku should suffice against 99.9% of the living beings of the multiverse.
In the next arc , Pan, Goten and Trunks will use MUI just to get to class on time when they are late.
Also Can Zen Oh or The Grand Priest grant wishes like the super dragon balls? Meaning bring a universe back thats been erased?
Seems even an Angel like Whis can bring people back to life like only a wish from the dragon balls should do.
Originally posted by bbrem123Presumably, yes.
So if Goku masters UI completely will his hair always be white?
But like I said on the last page: if Goku can't even access UI at all, and it is still just a power/ability that occurs spontaneously when he's backed into a corner, then how can he be said to have 'mastered' it at all..? Even Beerus, who hasn't 'mastered' UI, can still enter a UI-esque state at will(we saw this in the manga.) Goku apparently can't even do that, yet he has supposedly surpassed Beerus and fully 'mastered' UI? Makes no sense.
...Don't get me wrong, I'm GLAD Goku can't attain MUI whevever he feels like it. Just saying that 'mastered' doesn't seem like the proper title to me at all. /shrug
Originally posted by Kento👆
Saiyans are going to have a hard time with Freeza. I mean he's gotten this powerful with few months training and a few years meditating. Now once he starts actually training....
And Freeza has actually witnessed the the FULL extent of the Saiyans' powers now. During RoF, he didn't have the slightest clue how powerful Goku had *actually* become -- all he knew back then is that Goku had beaten Majin Boo and encountered Beerus. Despite this, Freeza STILL increased his power by a gargantuan amount... But now that he actually knows what he's up against, who knows the levels he might ascend to..?
😑
Goku's presumably the first lower level being to access UI at all, so it makes sense there would be special pre-conditions that don't apply to gods.
For one, Whis's reactions suggest UI isn't supposed to be a timed state. He was even surprised at the extent of the damage to Goku.
In that context, there might be a natural mental block against accessing it at will, because of the tremendous damage it inflicts on the user. It is literally an all or nothing weapon of last resort.
Originally posted by Galan007
Presumably, yes.But like I said on the last page: if Goku can't even access UI at all, and it is still just a power/ability that occurs spontaneously when he's backed into a corner, then how can he be said to have 'mastered' it at all..? Even Beerus, who hasn't 'mastered' UI, can still enter a UI-esque state at will(we saw this in the manga.) Goku apparently can't even do that, yet he has supposedly surpassed Beerus and fully 'mastered' UI? Makes no sense.
...Don't get me wrong, I'm GLAD Goku can't attain MUI whevever he feels like it. Just saying that 'mastered' doesn't seem like the proper title to me at all. /shrug
Yea true this makes zero sense. In order for it to be "mastered" the individual would need to have it always active (e.g. Whis)
Goku attended UI and an incomplete version of UI, both for a limited amount of time. The word "mastered" is miss used here for sure. It should just be called UI not MUI...
Originally posted by Galan007
But like I said on the last page: if Goku can't even access UI at all, and it is still just a power/ability that occurs spontaneously when he's backed into a corner, then how can he be said to have 'mastered' it at all..? Even Beerus, who hasn't 'mastered' UI, can still enter a UI-esque state at will(we saw this in the manga.) Goku apparently can't even do that, yet he has supposedly surpassed Beerus and fully 'mastered' UI? Makes no sense.
/super
Originally posted by Galan007He has mastered the state itself to a further degree than Beerus, able to attack and defend without need for conscious thought at all, but he was only able to do that because he was stretched to his highest limits in an extremely short amount of time. He hasn't had the necessary time and training to acclimate to the power properly, whereas Beerus has acclimated to his power and can access it at will.
But like I said on the last page: if Goku can't even access UI at all, and it is still just a power/ability that occurs spontaneously when he's backed into a corner, then how can he be said to have 'mastered' it at all..? Even Beerus, who hasn't 'mastered' UI, can still enter a UI-esque state at will(we saw this in the manga.) Goku apparently can't even do that, yet he has supposedly surpassed Beerus and fully 'mastered' UI? Makes no sense....Don't get me wrong, I'm GLAD Goku can't attain MUI whevever he feels like it. Just saying that 'mastered' doesn't seem like the proper title to me at all. /shrug
Similar to how Frieza's Golden form initially overpowered Blue, but because it had been attained so hastily, it ran out of juice quickly. He was more powerful but couldn't maintain that power as well due to a lack of mastery over it.
Yeah, I know the concept of MUI.
I'm simply saying that if Goku cannot access UI at will, then he has not 'mastered' it... Not really. As mentioned, even Beerus can use an incomplete iteration of UI at will(he's done so in the manga.) Goku cannot even do that, yet his 'mastery' of UI is supposedly beyond Beerus'? Makes no sense.
"Complete" UI would have been a far more accurate title, tbh.
It's possible that any time he gets into a UI state he can go Blanco again. He's mastered the state but he can't get to the state.
I don't know what sort of comparison to use. It's like playing a game and you're an expert at the hardest level at the game but you need help to get there or just can't usually. Once you get there you can master it, but you suck dick before that.
If that makes sense. He Mastered the state, but he hasn't mastered getting into the state?
...
But yeah, probably should have been called something different.
Originally posted by Galan007Blue Freeza after he mixes Golden Form with God energy he will strive to attain.👆
And Freeza has actually witnessed the the FULL extent of the Saiyans' powers now. During RoF, he didn't have the slightest clue how powerful Goku had *actually* become -- all he knew back then is that Goku had beaten Majin Boo and encountered Beerus. Despite this, Freeza STILL increased his power by a gargantuan amount... But now that he actually knows what he's up against, who knows the levels he might ascend to..?
😑
Originally posted by One Big MobI totally understand what you're saying. But as mentioned: if you can't freely access the thing you have supposedly 'mastered', then it's hard to think of you as a true master at all... It's like saying you 'mastered' a Rubik's Cube, just because you solved it once by accident.
It's possible that any time he gets into a UI state he can go Blanco again. He's mastered the state but he can't get to the state.I don't know what sort of comparison to use. It's like playing a game and you're an expert at the hardest level at the game but you need help to get there or just can't usually. Once you get there you can master it, but you suck dick before that.
If that makes sense. He Mastered the state, but he hasn't mastered getting into the state?
...
But yeah, probably should have been called something different.
Whis, for example, has actually 'mastered' UI -- he is either in 'mastered-mode' all the time, or can at least access it [instantly] whenever he wants. Even though Beerus hasn't fully mastered UI yet, he can still enter his incomplete iteration of it at will -- so in *that* respect, even HE has 'mastered' the concept of UI far more than Goku at this point. So yeah, it's just hard to think of Goku as a true 'master', but I digress...
I maintain that it should have been called "complete" UI in Goku's case... From my perspective, the only beings who have truly 'mastered' it are the Angels. The next closest is Beerus, because he can at least use UI on *some* level whenever he wants. The next closest is Goku, whose use of UI is wholly subconscious/spontaneous, and ONLY occurs if he is facing an uber-as-f*ck threat that pushes him WAY beyond his limits -- he has no control of it whatsoever.
srug
Maybe he just doesn't have any memory of it.
It's ultra instinct, after all. The divide between the conscious and subconsciousness could be a strictly mortal condition, which would explain why Angels don't need to master it, and converts like Beerus can't master it easily.
So Goku only really mastered operating on an entirely instinctual level. That isn't the same thing as mastering the ability to summon that state at will.
