Originally posted by cdtmUI isn't always tied directly to ki output -- that's why Roshi was able to use a variation of it, for example. Same with Merus- his battle power isn't implied to be overly massive either... His movements and whatnot are just wickedly fast(very UI-esque.)
Goku wanting to master UI because he believes it would let him fight Moro even if his power is drained, implies you don't need all that much chi to use UI effectively.
However, when Goku activates UI, it definitely gives him a massive boost in power.
Originally posted by One Big Mob😂
That came and went. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
UI isn't always tied directly to ki output -- that's why Roshi was able to use a variation of it, for example. Same with Merus- his battle power isn't implied to be overly massive either... His movements and whatnot are just wickedly fast(very UI-esque.)However, when Goku activates UI, it definitely gives him a massive boost in power.
😂
That came and went. 👆
Wish we had a better idea of Merus's power level. If he was able to actually hurt Goku and defend against that explosion, but was sub SSJ, that would point to Val Armorr like skill making up the differences.
Originally posted by Galan007
UI isn't always tied directly to ki output -- that's why Roshi was able to use a variation of it, for example. Same with Merus- his battle power isn't implied to be overly massive either...
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I haven't been able to find a source to confirm whether or not this is true, but there was recently a fuss on 4chan about Toyotaro (the DBS mangaka) saying that Broly has the highest "power level" of any character in the DBverse. As I recall, he went on to specify that the strength of the Angels owes to their techniques, and that in that sense, their case is similar to Moro's.
And yet Tenshinhan is still the first to get stomped.
I like the idea of skills being able to compete with power levels. Would like it more, if it wasn't being used by already absurdly powerful characters, instead of someone like Piccolo or Yamcha.
Originally posted by cdtm
I like the idea of skills being able to compete with power levels.
I guess the magic angel martial art is the only one that counts for anything.
Originally posted by NewGuy01Interesting.
I haven't been able to find a source to confirm whether or not this is true, but there was recently a fuss on 4chan about Toyotaro (the DBS mangaka) saying that Broly has the highest "power level" of any character in the DBverse. As I recall, he went on to specify that the strength of the Angels owes to their techniques, and that in that sense, their case is similar to Moro's.
Must've missed that interview, but Broly having the greatest individual PL in the saga thus far doesn't at all surprise me. It also makes sense that the 'strength' of the Angels lies more in an emphasis on technique as opposed to raw power level, given their mastery of UI... Although they are undoubtedly still strong AF, lol.
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Whis only said it was really difficult to master. He never commented on power level requirements either way.
Everything we're told about Dragon Ball up to this point implies power level means everything, and using skills to compete with high powers contradicts the entirety of Dragon Ball. Except, we have on screen proof you CAN use skills to counter power levels.
The proof is Roshi, Krillin, and Merus being quicker then Gohan, Jiren, and Goku.
One can argue they were holding back their true power, and to an extent that's true.. But even that only excuses so much. Jiren has absolutely no reason to hold back his power so much, he couldn't even hit Roshi for a bit.
Originally posted by cdtmWe've been over this before. Jiren had every reason to hold back against Roshi.
Jiren has absolutely no reason to hold back his power so much, he couldn't even hit Roshi for a bit.
a.) Roshi had never once displayed speed/movement on that level prior to engaging Jiren, so it obviously wasn't something Jiren knew he was capable of initially.
b.) Killing was strictly forbidden in the ToP. Violation of that rule made you and your entire universe subject to instant erasure. No exceptions.
c.) Jiren can sense ki(he sensed the spike in ki when Toppo powered up to GoD-level), thus obviously would've known where Roshi's power stood in comparison to his own.
IOW, Jiren would have only been attacking Roshi with blows that he was absolutely sure wouldn't kill him... Which means that he was holding back immensely(to say the least.)
That's why, even after Roshi used that faux-UI of his, Jiren still only used a casual chop to eliminate him, and not an unrestrained punch/kick:
https://i.imgur.com/sw2Ekhe.jpg
Jiren was very clearly pulling his punches.
Originally posted by Galan007
We've been over this before. Jiren had every reason to hold back against Roshi.a.) Roshi had never once displayed speed/movement on that level prior to engaging Jiren, so it obviously wasn't something Jiren knew he was capable of initially.
b.) Killing was strictly forbidden in the ToP. Violation of that rule made you and your entire universe subject to instant erasure. No exceptions.
c.) Jiren can sense ki(he sensed the spike in ki when Toppo powered up to GoD-level), thus obviously would've known where Roshi's power stood in comparison to his own.IOW, Jiren would have only been attacking Roshi with blows that he was absolutely sure wouldn't kill him... Which means that he was holding back immensely(to say the least.)
That's why, even after Roshi used that faux-UI of his, Jiren still only used a casual chop to eliminate him, and not an unrestrained punch/kick:
https://i.imgur.com/sw2Ekhe.jpgJiren was very clearly pulling his punches.
I don't doubt he was trying not to kill him, sure. But Goku never had a problem ramping up his speed, while pulling his punch's, see his fight with Chi Chi.
Or hell, look at any Budokai. Blitzing and baby taps are common there.
Jiren did ramp up his speed, though.
Roshi dodged a few of his [heavily suppressed] strikes, and Jiren was like "okay, he's got some speed/reactions I haven't see before", then proceeded to casually dodge Roshi's strike before eliminating him with a chop.
And remember, in the manga that scene was detrimental to Goku initially activating UI -- seeing Roshi move like that was literally the final trigger Goku needed. Point being: you can't really rationalize it... The scene was going to play-out like that no matter what. /shrug
The more I think of Buu awakening the Kaioshin, the more questions I have.
How did Buu even defeat him, for starters? By absorbing him?
So where did all that power go? Why was it sleeping? And since when could anyone Buu absorbs, essentially emerge as a personality?
And that's all i have to say on that. In other musings:
Do you think that beating Broly took at Gogeta's hands pushed him past him, after he healed? If they fought again, would Gogeta be totally screwed, unless he unlocks MUI or something?
I am pretty sure Broly is ridicuosly far from having greatest battle power in DBverse. Even if someone believes he could be above angels (he is far from that though also in battle power), there is Grand Priest. I mean Grand Priest who stopped Quitella and Beerus with one finger. I have no doubt Whis could do the same. Grand Priest battle power is above thousands and thousands Brolyes. And i also don't believe Toyotaro said something like that... because it would make him extremely stupid... and of course there is no clues of that interview.
