Originally posted by Galan007The fact that he now has Goku and Vegeta (their normal SSJB versions) in the same realm of power as Jiren tells you all you need to know about how much Toriyama thinks about power scaling between arcs.
That said, I am firmly of the belief that Tori has absolutely no clue what he's doing with scaling at this point(now more than ever), so who f*cking knows?
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime👆 it also goes along with the usual DB algorithm where a more powerful villain appears in every arc.
Even if Cell Max was > Broly, would not care since it isnt the OG Cell. Would be a funny way to end the age old Cell vs Broly debate nonetheless, but glad there seems to be an implication that Cell Max isnt all that.
But I do agree with Galan that I dont think Cell MAX was necessarily above Broly overall by virtue of being functionally incomplete. He might have had that level of dormant raw power, but had no idea how to use it practically because his mind programming wasn't complete, which is why he was basically retarded. That might explain why weaker characters (like the Gammas and Piccorange) were able to mount some kind of defense against him for a while.
I could definitely see Beast Gohan being Broly level though, just because it seems like Toriyama has gone back to stroking him again.
***side question- are we now considering the DBS anime, manga and movies as completely separate continuities now? Seems like thats the way it has headed IMO.
Originally posted by MendaxThe manga and anime loosely align at best, so it's logical to consider them separate continuities.
***side question- are we now considering the DBS anime, manga and movies as completely separate continuities now? Seems like thats the way it has headed IMO.
I think the manga and movies could still be considered part of the same continuity, though. Maybe.
It is amusing how before, the others kind of tried to have some sort of unified continuity, but then came Toriyama with the latest film and was all "Nah, I'll just continue doing my own thing, disregarding Ultra Instinct and much of what came before".
Let's see how much more a mess he makes the canon for people with whatever next film he does in some years. 👆 I'd rather him **** things up though than someone else, so that you have someone you know to blame rather than some nameless Toei executive.
Just saw a full render of Cell Max instead of just another screenshot from the film, and the "shoe feet" are really bad there. Regular old Semi-Perfect and Perfect Cell had shoe feet too, but it wasn't this awkward. Cell Max has like sneaker-feet that are ugly along with the rest of his design.
According to current numbers I saw in a video, while Super Hero had a bigger opening than DBS Broly, Super Hero hasn't maintained that momentum and doesn't look like it will match Broly in overall sales as the weeks go on. If DB movies had to reach diminishing returns, then I'm glad this is the point.
I must say though, I did really enjoy the shear aggression Gohan had when they took Pan. Super intense and unique to Gohan as a character. His driver to strength increase is much more effective than any other character in the series(his parent child relationship/fighting for love ones). And him being half human allows him to utilize this to a crazy extent. Compared to Goku who increases in power due to the thrill of the fight.
This film seems to take place directly after Broly. So current Goku and Vegeta are clearly strong due to them surpassing the Stronger in the Universe mulitple times now for Goku.
Originally posted by Galan007
The manga and anime loosely align at best, so it's logical to consider them separate continuities.
durhulk
Galan, I've been telling you that for years.
Originally posted by Galan007
I think the manga and movies could still be considered part of the same continuity, though. Maybe.
durredhulk
No.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeJust kidding. Honestly, time has made me more forgiving of GT with how I've become increasingly critical of Toriyama. Before Dragon Ball "came back" in the early to mid 2010's, it was always said that Toriyama having little to no involvement in GT was why it "failed", when ironically, it was the best thing that could've happened to it.
That said, the parts of Super that Toriyama didn't have much involvement with I tend to like more than the parts where he's at the helm. Except for Broly; he did did fine in giving a modernized version of the character that most liked (and the movie had some of the best fight choreography to boot), but then played a reverse-uno card when it came to Cell, this film of which happens to have crap choreography apparently.
On the whole though, both Toei and Toyotaro I just find have more interesting ideas for Dragon Ball content on average compared to modern Toriyama, even if they don't always work out; that goes for both GT and the Super anime on Toei's end. Thankfully, all Tori does is just direct the occasional movie, while everyone else does their own thing even if he leaves some cliff notes, but the less he touches the series the better, imo.
Great post 👆
Couldn't agree more.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWThe BoG, RoF, and Broly movies can definitely align with manga canon.
durredhulkNo.
The new movie *could* still fit with manga canon as well, because I don't think the manga has caught up to the point in the timeline that this movie is set. For example, after the conclusion of the Moro arc, Pan was still depicted as a baby and Goten/Trunks were still kids as well:
https://ibb.co/FxCpLkP
But in the new movie, Pan is 3 years old, and Goten/Trunks have aged-up as well -- it's literally set just 1 year before the EoZ(Pan was 4 years old then.) So it *could* take place after the Granolah arc, which would explain why Piccolo and Gohan haven't displayed these new powerups in the manga. Just saying. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
The BoG, RoF, and Broly movies can definitely align with manga canon.The new movie *could* still fit with manga canon as well, because I don't think the manga has caught up to the point in the timeline that this movie is set. For example, after the conclusion of the Moro arc, Pan was still depicted as a baby and Goten/Trunks were still kids as well:
https://ibb.co/FxCpLkPBut in the new movie, Pan is 3 years old, and Goten/Trunks have aged-up as well -- it's literally set just 1 year before the EoZ(Pan was 4 years old then.) So it *could* take place after the Granolah arc, which would explain why Piccolo and Gohan haven't displayed these new powerups in the manga. Just saying. /shrug
Wait wait this is after moro? that makes zero sense. I cant take their "stronger" than Goku and Vegeta comment seriously. How do they know what happened with the Granolah arc or even the Moro...Hell they cant even sense god ki...
And if that statement is true then Gohan instantly became the strongest in the universe lmaoooo. Please say it ain't so. The random upgrade with no story or build up...awesome.
I also read that Pan was 4 in the moro arc
Bear in mind that I'm just saying the new movie could fit with the manga timeline -- not necessarily that it does fit. Seems like Toriyama is just throwing random shit out there, without even attempting to keep things cohesive... It is what it is, I guess. ermm
The scan I posted above is from chap.67 of the DBS manga, which is the conclusion of the Moro arc and the start of the Granolah arc. Pan was still just a baby there(Videl is holding her), and Goten/Trunks are still kids as well. So like I mentioned: the new movie could align with the manga timeline based on that(which assumes that it is set after the conclusion of the Granolah arc)... But it also might not. Who the f*ck knows at this point? /shrug
Regardless, I totally understand why people would think of the anime, manga, and movies(especially THIS movie) as completely separate continuities.
Originally posted by Galan007seriously. This gohan just turned into the old Broly…will just be strange seeing pan 4 in this movie and now go back to the anime where she is a baby lol. Unless they change that up in the anime and keep her older. Making it pre Moro? You are right The Who knows at this point…
Bear in mind that I'm just saying the new movie could fit with the manga timeline -- not necessarily that it does fit. Seems like Toriyama is just throwing random shit out there, without even attempting to keep things cohesive... It is what it is, I guess. ermmThe scan I posted above is from chap.67 of the DBS manga, which is the conclusion of the Moro arc and the start of the Granolah arc. Pan was still just a baby there(Videl is holding her), and Goten/Trunks are still kids as well. So like I mentioned: the new movie could align with the manga timeline based on that(which assumes that it is set after the conclusion of the Granolah arc)... But it also might not. Who the f*ck knows at this point? /shrug
Regardless, I totally understand why people would think of the anime, manga, and movies(especially THIS movie) as completely separate continuities.
Originally posted by Galan007
Bear in mind that I'm just saying the new movie could fit with the manga timeline -- not necessarily that it does fit. Seems like Toriyama is just throwing random shit out there, without even attempting to keep things cohesive... It is what it is, I guess. ermmThe scan I posted above is from chap.67 of the DBS manga, which is the conclusion of the Moro arc and the start of the Granolah arc. Pan was still just a baby there(Videl is holding her), and Goten/Trunks are still kids as well. So like I mentioned: the new movie could align with the manga timeline based on that(which assumes that it is set after the conclusion of the Granolah arc)... But it also might not. Who the f*ck knows at this point? /shrug
Regardless, I totally understand why people would think of the anime, manga, and movies(especially THIS movie) as completely separate continuities.
Well said 👆
Finally breaking through your denial and starting to make sense vin
Keep it up and you'll be free of Toxic Tori the Troll in no time.
I remember once seeing a discussion some other place that Dragon Ball won't ever be in the same again once Toriyama passes, but honestly, it'll probably be for the better. That said, I don't wish the man ill or for him to die anytime soon, like the original manga creator of Yu-Gi-Oh who passed recently from a swimming accident... But any big franchise tends to outlive its creator, one way or another.
Will Dragon Ball get better again after this? Who knows, but fans who make Tori to be the end-all-be-all need to get past their tunnel vision.