Kinda going off my last post, another problem I realized I had with "beast mode" Gohan in Super Hero is that he didn't really do anything impressive. Yes, he got the final shot on Cell Max when Piccolo was holding him down, but feels like Gohan in mystic form would've been able to do the same with Special Beam Cannon, considering. Even a failed Gotenks fusion was able to get a crack in the weak spot on Cell Max's head. People judge new forms mostly on their design, but not so much their execution. I don't mind new forms, but if the execution of them is weak, then they don't really matter for me regardless of how cool they might look.
Also had to call bullshit on the Gohan statement that even Goku and Vegeta might not of been able to beat Cell Max the more I thought about it. I mean if they were given the same knowledge the others were about Max's weak spot on the head, then one could've just distracted him while the other could've just blown his head off with a strong ki move. Maybe blind Max with a Solar Flare and then finish the job, or at least destroy one of his arms without doing a sacrificial move like one of the Gamma's since Max can't regenerate, being Cell in mostly name only. I don't know, plenty ways to take care of generic monster.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil2
I know, but I can dream, can’t I?
👆
Would love human fighters to get some attention, for a change.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Kinda going off my last post, another problem I realized I had with "beast mode" Gohan in Super Hero is that he didn't really do anything impressive. Yes, he got the final shot on Cell Max when Piccolo was holding him down, but feels like Gohan in mystic form would've been able to do the same with Special Beam Cannon, considering. Even a failed Gotenks fusion was able to get a crack in the weak spot on Cell Max's head. People judge new forms mostly on their design, but not so much their execution. I don't mind new forms, but if the execution of them is weak, then they don't really matter for me regardless of how cool they might look.Also had to call bullshit on the Gohan statement that even Goku and Vegeta might not of been able to beat Cell Max the more I thought about it. I mean if they were given the same knowledge the others were about Max's weak spot on the head, then one could've just distracted him while the other could've just blown his head off with a strong ki move. Maybe blind Max with a Solar Flare and then finish the job, or at least destroy one of his arms without doing a sacrificial move like one of the Gamma's since Max can't regenerate, being Cell in mostly name only. I don't know, plenty ways to take care of generic monster.
Really sounds like the equivalent of Bio-Broly.
Which means the filler and GT material with Cell was much superior? 😂
Also, this is probably the worst weakness to have. Everyone is smart enough to go for the "critical hits" already.
Was basically the intention. There was nothing original about the form. Like I said before too, the beginning of the transformation cut to the black screen with a red line crossing his head like when teen Gohan went SSJ2 form the first time. It was cheap nostalgia bait and executed far worse than it was in the Cell Games.
Some Dragon Ball fans elsewhere apparently argued that Cell wasn't really a good villain to begin with (I realize not everyone liked Cell, but he was usually considered one of the best of Z up there with Frieza out of the canon villains), and so it doesn't matter what they do with him or a version of him in a film. It would be like me arguing that because I never liked Z Broly that much, that it didn't matter that the sequel made him worse or just saying that he deserved to have a deformed clone of him out of spite. You basically gotta say you hate better villains in order to defend Bio Broly or Cell Max like that.
* I prefer the newer Broly who I easily grew to love, though I understand the appeal of the old one. He just wasnt for me. Did like the original Paragus better though.
If there is any real defense to be made of Cell Max, it would be that he helps preserve Cell's legacy by simply being a mindless clone of his Semi-Perfect form, rather than being essentially a reincarnation of Cell that barely gets any screentime by the third act. He would of had to be an initial focus of the film like Gamma 1 and 2; while Cell being conjured up and made out to be the big bad of the Android arc after the other Androids were introduced worked for Z as a show, it would not have worked for an hour and a half or so film where he is only there for the final act.
Cell fans will only be increasingly vocal after this, regardless. If there is ever a Resurrection C or something, cant be any worse than Super Hero at least.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWMeh, Bulma clearly just wants to f*ck Krillin. 👆
Perhaps she's had enough of Galan's posts... 😖hifty:He wanks that midget as much as I wank the Marvel's one.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeI thought the same thing.
Kinda going off my last post, another problem I realized I had with "beast mode" Gohan in Super Hero is that he didn't really do anything impressive. Yes, he got the final shot on Cell Max when Piccolo was holding him down, but feels like Gohan in mystic form would've been able to do the same with Special Beam Cannon, considering. Even a failed Gotenks fusion was able to get a crack in the weak spot on Cell Max's head. People judge new forms mostly on their design, but not so much their execution. I don't mind new forms, but if the execution of them is weak, then they don't really matter for me regardless of how cool they might look.Also had to call bullshit on the Gohan statement that even Goku and Vegeta might not of been able to beat Cell Max the more I thought about it. I mean if they were given the same knowledge the others were about Max's weak spot on the head, then one could've just distracted him while the other could've just blown his head off with a strong ki move. Maybe blind Max with a Solar Flare and then finish the job, or at least destroy one of his arms without doing a sacrificial move like one of the Gamma's since Max can't regenerate, being Cell in mostly name only. I don't know, plenty ways to take care of generic monster.
Fattenks was able to crack Cell MAX's dome, then Gamma #2 weakened him even further with his kamikaze, then Gohan just finished the job with his SBC.
It was a cool moment(I guess?), but not really that impressive in hindsight.
Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, Bulma clearly just wants to f*ck Krillin. 👆
mmm
Perhaps you're right.
I've seen enough porn to know that bald guys really know how to use their heads...
Originally posted by Galan007
Fattenks was able to crack Cell MAX's dome
The most original weakness of them all.
Seriously, wtf they were smoking when making Super Hero.
The Special Beam Cannon going through CellMax's head wasn't the 'impressive' oh Gohan is so powerful. It was the taking the full power punch to the body without blocking, and then just casually pushing his hand back. When CellMax was > Orange Piccolo who himself was the > Gamma 1, 2, and Mystic Gohan along with also being stronger than (movie version) Gokou, and Vegeta.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil2
Wasn’t even super fat gotenks. Just base fat gotenks
Yeah, I figured what Galan meant by "Fattenks". I remember well the failed fusions.
Why they keep repeating the same joke, btw?
It was funny the first time. But repeating it over and over again seems lame as f*ck, tbh.
Originally posted by KentoCell MAX wasn't at full power against Beast Gohan. Piccolo explicitly stated that the kamikaze from Gamma #2 dropped Cell's power -- and we know this is true, because even an exhausted Orange Piccolo was able to restrain him long enough for Gohan to charge his SBC. So he must've been significantly weakened.
The Special Beam Cannon going through CellMax's head wasn't the 'impressive' oh Gohan is so powerful. It was the taking the full power punch to the body without blocking, and then just casually pushing his hand back. When CellMax was > Orange Piccolo who himself was the > Gamma 1, 2, and Mystic Gohan along with also being stronger than (movie version) Gokou, and Vegeta.
Aside from that, Piccolo also stated that they couldn't have won without the help of the Gammas... This implies that Piccolo wasn't even confident that Beast Gohan could've gotten the job done if Cell had been at 100%.
Don't get me wrong, Beast Gohan is certainly powerful(he is well above SSB-tier)... It's just hard to gauge exactly how powerful he is, given that his only feats were against a weakened opponent.
Originally posted by Galan007Couldn't you gauge it by scale? Didn't you figure out how much stronger a character has to be to take a hit from a character and not take any damage from it?
Don't get me wrong, Beast Gohan is certainly powerful(he is well above SSB-tier)... It's just hard to gauge exactly how powerful he is, given that his only feats were against a weakened opponent.
Just apply that to Gamma 2 fighting Orange Piccolo. Then Orange Piccolo to Beast Gohan. And you have a rough gauge of how much of a boost Beast Mode did.
And I say Orange Piccolo in place of Cell Max, because it seemed Orange Piccolo could actually effect 'weakened' Cell Max with his attacks even if he was wrecked quickly, so it was more like Vegeta vs Recoome, not enough power difference to take hits without feeling them but strong enough to wreck the other person fast.
So it's not completely accurate but a start to how much stronger Gohan is.
Originally posted by KentoAs of right now, I think the "movie-verse" scaling would look something like this:
Couldn't you gauge it by scale? Didn't you figure out how much stronger a character has to be to take a hit from a character and not take any damage from it?Just apply that to Gamma 2 fighting Orange Piccolo. Then Orange Piccolo to Beast Gohan. And you have a rough gauge of how much of a boost Beast Mode did.
And I say Orange Piccolo in place of Cell Max, because it seemed Orange Piccolo could actually effect 'weakened' Cell Max with his attacks even if he was wrecked quickly, so it was more like Vegeta vs Recoome, not enough power difference to take hits without feeling them but strong enough to wreck the other person fast.
So it's not completely accurate but a start to how much stronger Gohan is.
So while I certainly think that Beast Gohan is well above SSB-tier, it's still hard to accurately gauge him, imo. Is he Sign-level? Is he MUI-level? I don't know. As mentioned, his only feats were against a weakened opponent that even an exhausted Orange Piccolo was able to briefly restrain. /shrug
**Though I'd also note that it's all subject to change, depending on whether or not Toyotaro tries to cram the events of this movie into the manga when it continues.
Originally posted by InedianIf you give Gohan the heavy benefit of the doubt, then maybe? But nothing in the movie supports that, tbh.
Beast Gohan would definitely destroy Cell Max alone without help.
Beast Gohan had quite a bit of "help", after all...
a.) Fattenks cracks Cell MAX's dome.
b.) Gamma #2's kamikaze significantly weakens Cell MAX.
c.) Piccolo restrains Cell MAX, and keeps his head perfectly in place while Gohan charges/fires his SBC.
d.) Piccolo(who can very accurately sense ki, and literally saw Beast Gohan in action) states they couldn't have won without the Gammas' help.