^ Can't recall if there's a period-specific quote, but during the BoG promo interviews, Toriyama stated that he completely forgot about SS2, and actually confused it with SS3. He's also made several statements over the years in which he outright admits that he forgets shit all the time.
As for Gohan's fight with Dabura, there are only two likely possibilities, imo:
1.) Goku was wrong about Dabura being on par with Perfect Cell(kind of like how he was wrong about Broly being on par with Beerus), in which case Gohan 'only' using SS1 would make a lot more sense.
2.) Dabura actually was on par with Perfect Cell, in which case Gohan(who was FAR weaker than he was during the Cell Games) would've literally had to be using SS2 to stand any sort of chance at all... Visible 'sparks' be damned.
Still, Kento made a fair point that since Gohan's not a kid anymore, he wouldn't get the typical rage boosts he was known for as easily anymore. As a more stable minded and successful adult, they would happen more rarely as a result, but some specific instances and a giant caricature of Cell would still do the trick.
I guess my issue now is with fans who can accept Gohan getting an out of nowhere powerup that puts him on par godly characters (Goku and Vegeta) for no reason, but not Future Trunks when it came to his anime only form in the Zamasu arc. ermm They were fairly similar situations too, half saiyans with unique potential and all.
Yeah, but the difference is that Trunks unlocking a godly form during the Zamasu arc would have been irrelevant and immediately cheapened by the fact that Zamasu was completely unkillable to all but Zen-Oh himself. IOW, it literally would not have mattered how powerful the characters became during that arc, as they still couldn't have permanently beaten Zamasu regardless. Put Black Freeza, Gas, Granolah, TUI Goku, UE Vegeta, Broly, and Beast Gohan against Zamasu, and the outcome would still be the same. Dude was stupidly OP(even by DBS standards), but I digress...
Anyway, I fully agree that Trunks *should* be capable of reaching god-tier power. Maybe not to the same extent as Gohan(because irrational leaps in power have ALWAYS been Gohan's thing)... But there is no reason why Trunks shouldn't be able to achieve something close to that at least. /shrug
Yes. Exactly.
🙁
Not to mention retcons - Saiyan beyond God suffered a lot from that, if I recall correctly.
Then you have so many characters getting asspull power-ups out of nowhere, it all feels kind of... well, pointless.
It surprised me how I digged non-fight scenes more than fight scenes in Super - usually, it was the other way round, as far as Dragon Ball series is concerned.
Originally posted by Galan007
They just keep getting cheapened/surpassed so quick... And it usually happens in the same arc the form is introduced.
Far as the Future Trunks form, SSJ Rage at least looked cool from being similar to his SSJ grade 3 form or whatever you call it where he bulks up but is surrounded by a blue aura, without being completely blue like the Goku and Vegeta god forms. Maybe a demigod form, and Trunks initially had blank eyes as a result of a near berserk state. Reminded me of OG Broly at first in that sense.
Certainly a more unique design than a simple recolor like most of the typical DBS transformations.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Dabura was stated to have a similar power level as Cell - there is no way a weakened, extremely rusty, nerd version of Gohan could fight him so well without going SSJ2, imho.And Toriyama & Toei have a really long history of forgetting to draw/animate SSJ2 form properly, I believe.
Didn't Tori himself say that he forgot about it?
This is certainly a pretty interesting topic, I don't think this "Was Gohan SSJ2 against Dabura?" debate will ever end.
Well, Dabura needed the energy from the fight, he wasn't trying to go all out against Gohan. So it was more like Cell vs Gokou type deal, where one was going all out and the other wasn't. Gohan was literally tired from the fight and fighting to survive. So, that easily explains that.
Toei doesn't have anything to do with it. Toriyama on the other hand, was literally drawing ssj2 Gokou and Vegeta during the scenes with Gohan. Lightning and all for them, and not for Gohan. Years later Toriyama could easily forget the form, but not in the same chapter, and only for Gohan.
Toriyama forgot about it during BoG's. Not the Buu Saga.
GT was Toriyama's idea in part, in that he gave Toei the basis for it.
This is just him returning to the idea and going all "This is how the concept would be if I was behind all of it. Now most of the cast are kids, not just Goku".
I just don't care for this adventure spinoff since it's to avoid continuing where Super left off with Black Frieza and such.
Not sure where people be getting it from at the moment, but some are saying now that Daima takes place between the Buu saga and Battle of the Gods.. I guess something like that would be fine as a prequel to Super, but kinda makes it even more pointless other than for something else to have while waiting for Super to continue places it left off.