Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Aside from that, Palpatine overpowered the entire jedi order's far-sight, and that was on a galactic scale. And, yes, it was Palpatine's doing according to the databank, and the comic version of AOTC, wherein Yoda's vision was blocked by an apparition of Sidious's hooded figure.
And the First Son hid hundreds of Emperor's Children from the Jedi's senses.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, that's just when it reached it's peak in population, which was twice that of our own world.I can't figure out the other source, but like Zen pointed out, The New Essential Guide was detailing events that took place shortly after the clone wars, Palpatine's population and corruption of Byss being one of them. Aside from that, Palpatine overpowered the entire jedi order's far-sight, and that was on a galactic scale. And, yes, it was Palpatine's doing according to the databank, and the comic version of AOTC, wherein Yoda's vision was blocked by an apparition of Sidious's hooded figure.
As I said before, there's a reason the force found Palpatine as a threat, and is the only time it directly interfered. It was basically the force's instinct to rid itself of Sidious.
👆
Originally posted by Nephthys
And the First Son hid hundreds of Emperor's Children from the Jedi's senses.
Hiding your presence or the presence of other dark siders isn't the same as blocking the jedi order's ability to peer the future. Palpatine nearly took an ability away from them. Premonitions were even rare then.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDBecause it invalidates your argument that the Sith Emperor could replicate this feat in physical form. 😬
I am not sure why you are assuming concession, I just reminded you that you should not jump to conclusions about potential of Vitiate's physical forms since his story is in progress.
If you are going to tell me to not jump to conclusions, then you cannot, by your own logic, jump to the conclusion Vitiate could replicate this feat in physical form. Do you accept that?
What if Vitiate creates a form of pure dark side energy?What if isn't good enough. You need proof. Given that the Sith Emperor's Voices were possessed biological forms, that experienced natural decay, this is not a likelihood.On Ziost, Vitiate created some beings of pure dark side energy.
MaybeIts not a maybe, its a fact, by your own admission the Sith Emperor lost power when his Voice died. This effect would have been magnified tenfold when Sidious' real body was destroyed.
Here:Hmm, those sources would seem to conflict. Regardless the point is Sidious managed to return to the physical plane by his own volition, whereas the Sith Emperor required aid.He had spent over a year disembodied, formless, drifting through the maddening void of the Dark Side.
Taken from The Dark Empire Sourcebook
This is not officially confirmed.Its called a logical inference. Both the Dark Temple and Yavin 4 where dark side nexuses, the Sith Emperor had the power to draw on these nexuses, it would be in his best interests to do so and he has no reason not to, therefore he did.
So you think that Vitiate's essence was shifted in a briefcase?No, I think the Hand's recovered his essence, I don't assume he traveled across time and space to possess them as Palpatine did.
And it is nonsense.So your telling me that it takes an equal amount of strength to drain one individual as it does two? Or two million? Am I correct in that assumption?Powers do not change forms and/or fluctuate in intensity by virtue of scale. Siphon life force of single individual or millions, this Force Drain variant works the same way.
You need to prove that Sidious destroyed Da Soocha V with Force Storm.No, I merely need to prove he could, and I have already done so.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, basically Palpatine was to Byss what Vitiate was to Ziost, except Palpatine made Byss that way, whereas Ziost was already a sith world, strong in the dark side, before Vitiate's arrival.
1. Medriaas
2. Dromund Kaas
3. Ziost
On Medriaas, Vitiate orchestrated a ritual that resulted in creation of the largest nexus of the Dark Side the galaxy would ever witness, but Vitiate drew on the power of this nexus to consume entire biota of the planet including other Sith participants to attain corporeal immortality and also obliterated the Force energy itself touching this planet. In short, created a void in the galaxy.
On Dromund Kaas, Vitiate corrupted the atmosphere of the entire planet to such an extent that Day and Night became meaningless and Thunder Storms became common occurrence. The planet became stronger in the Dark Side and its flora and fauna was also influenced as a consequence. In addition, Vitiate created a powerful nexus of the Dark Side on this planet upon which the Dark Temple was constructed. Furthermore, Vitiate fed on life force of individuals stationed on this planet as captives or prisoners to grow in power with passage of time.
On Ziost, Vitiate possessed all of its inhabitants and used them to spread chaos and murder so he could feed on this deaths to grow in power. The planet, at this point, was invaded by Jedi and Republic forces, but many among them also fell to Vitiate's influence. After a time, Vitiate unleashed a tsunami of destructive Dark Side energy across the planet, using it to consume its entire biota and destroying the planet's environment.
In the nutshell, Vitiate have superior showings then Palpatine in the matters of influencing planets and your comparison is inadequate.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That's why I'm not seeing why people are placing Vitiate above Sidious (wait, yeah I do). I mean, his destruction of the planet was something Palpatine didn't do to Byss, as it was his prototype world for what he planned to do to the universe; however, Sidious can summon far more destructive energies instantaneously. Vitiate can't.
Force Storm may manifest quickly but doesn't ravages an entire planet in swift manner.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Oh, and Palpatine has the power to more than obliterate a planet.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Aside from that, Palpatine overpowered the entire jedi order's far-sight, and that was on a galactic scale. And, yes, it was Palpatine's doing according to the databank, and the comic version of AOTC, wherein Yoda's vision was blocked by an apparition of Sidious's hooded figure.As I said before, there's a reason the force found Palpatine as a threat, and is the only time it directly interfered. It was basically the force's instinct to rid itself of Sidious.
B/W:
"The Force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness and destruction. It is inevitable that a champion of the light will one day rise to oppose him. I may be that champion." He spoke with no hint of hubris. "I've played the role before. At the very least, I will make the Emperor step back and reconsider his plan. If that is my fate—if my role is to sacrifice myself for the one who will come next—then I embrace it."
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
&
The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted. But it was always there in some way, shape, or form.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Vitiate have been harming the Force (e.g. Nathema), therefore the Force is acting against Vitiate in the sense that it have spawned multiple champions of light to challenge him.
We already told you how Palpatine's Force Storm can annihalate a planet in short order, the fact that it ravages the Eclipse which has much more powerful shields than the Executor which tanked three Imperial Star Destroyers coming out of Hyperspace which a single Praetor class doing the same thing can fracture a planet to its core then yes a Force Storm can ravage a planet.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Merchant just to note the ISDs don't use hypermatter reactors they use the Solar 1-a2b reactors.On an interesting note I found, the Executor is apparently a 1 million ton vessel.
That honestly sounds like real downplay of the Executor. An ISD should weigh 354,150,000 metric tons. Also in the ICS it says that Venators and even Acclamators use Hypermatter reactors.
Originally posted by The Merchant
We already told you how Palpatine's Force Storm can annihalate a planet in short order, the fact that it ravages the Eclipse which has much more powerful shields than the Executor which tanked three Imperial Star Destroyers coming out of Hyperspace which a single Praetor class doing the same thing can fracture a planet to its core then yes a Force Storm can ravage a planet.
CIP:
Originally posted by The Merchant
That honestly sounds like real downplay of the Executor. An ISD should weigh 354,150,000 metric tons. Also in the ICS it says that Venators and even Acclamators use Hypermatter reactors.
What? I used a SW fact for this, not a "factual estimate." In legends a Praetor ship fell on to a planet and fractured the planet's core cause when it went to hyperspace it accidentally set its coordinates wrong because of a malfunction and rammed into the planet and it fractured the planet to its core. 3 Imperial Star Destroyer's, who's size and mass combined outweigh the Praetor class rammed into the Executor at the same time and merely brought down its shields. The Eclipse should at least be able to withstand that same amount of energy ramming into it.
Originally posted by The Merchant
What? I used a SW fact for this, not a "factual estimate." In legends a Praetor ship fell on to a planet and fractured the planet's core cause when it went to hyperspace it accidentally set its coordinates wrong because of a malfunction and rammed into the planet and it fractured the planet to its core. 3 Imperial Star Destroyer's, who's size and mass combined outweigh the Praetor class rammed into the Executor at the same time and merely brought down its shields. The Eclipse should at least be able to withstand that same amount of energy ramming into it.
Their are other events of large Star Destroyers crashing on different planets, and none managed to fracture the cores of these planets.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDNot crash Legend, collide at hyperspace speeds.
Which planet? What was its size? Planets significantly vary in size.Their are other events of large Star Destroyers crashing on different planets, and none managed to fracture the cores of these planets.
The planet was Pammant. Its size is unknown, but a planet is a planet, and its purposeless and arbitrary to deem it smaller of larger than Ziost.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your confused, I'm providing evidence he can kill a world, not obliterate a planet.
To kill a world, a Force Storm of a certain size and intensity is required. And we have not witnessed a Force Storm of such proportions yet. The best we have is a claim of Luke Skywalker.
The largest and most powerful Force Storm that Palpatine conjured was near Pinnacle Moon Base, right? Well, he used it to attack this moon:
"...look below...Look what is happening to your pitiful moon." (Darth Sidious to Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa Solo)
While it is correct that Luke and Leia disrupted Palpatine's control over this Force Storm, and it steered away from its designated path. It is also apparent that even this Force Storm couldn't kill Pinnacle Moon Base swiftly.
Do the math.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
We no for a fact that a Praetor-class battlecruiser (4,000 km) is enough to fracture the core of a planet if it collides at hyperspace speeds, because it happened to Pammant, the the subsequent radiation devastated the planet.
Also, what planet is this? How big? Planets significantly vary in size.
Similar events have occurred on different planets. And these planets remained stable, their cores weren't fractured.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Three ISDs is more than enough to match the reactor-core power of a Praetor, and that wasn't even enough to overwhelm the Executor's shields, several more would be required to do that, and more on top of that to destroy the Eclipse.Send that kind of destructive power into a planet and it will do more than fracture the core, it will tear the planet apart.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
You've already conceded that this is a moot point, because it wasn't the full extent of his power, we haven't actually forgotten.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So you are considering Canon or Legends content for comparison? You don't just get to pick and choose between the content when using Palpatine for comparison. You either consider Canon content or Legends content. Otherwise, DE events are not Canon and can be treated as null and void. Thank you.B/W:
"The Force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness and destruction. It is inevitable that a champion of the light will one day rise to oppose him. I may be that champion." He spoke with no hint of hubris. "I've played the role before. At the very least, I will make the Emperor step back and reconsider his plan. If that is my fate—if my role is to sacrifice myself for the one who will come next—then I embrace it."
Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
&
The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted. But it was always there in some way, shape, or form.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Vitiate have been harming the Force (e.g. Nathema), therefore the Force is acting against Vitiate in the sense that it have spawned multiple champions of light to challenge him. [/B]
What are you talking about? Everything I said about Palpatine applies to legends, and by your reasoning, he is without a doubt the most powerful being in legends.
The force didn't spawn any champion of light for Vitiate. It just let the galaxy run its course and do its normal business. Vitiate, agent of darkness, then someone comes to stop him, hence the word inevitable. However, Sidious corrupted the force to such an extent that, for the first time, the force itself had to directly interfere and spawn a chosen one to bring about Palps downfall, because inevitable just wasn't the case unless the force acted to stop him. Palpatine didn't just corrupt planets, he corrupted the entire force, bending it and the entire galaxy to his will.
And he can summon space/time shattering attacks instantaneously. Vitiate can't.
Vitiate is powerful though. Definitely the second most powerful dark sider despite being leagues below Sidious, but that's not a bad thing. People need to stop lowballing Vitiate.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not crash Legend, collide at hyperspace speeds.The planet was Pammant. Its size is unknown, but a planet is a planet, and its purposeless and arbitrary to deem it smaller of larger than Ziost.
Also, size matters. Ziost is a huge planet with two moons.
The ships crashed on Pammant and the Executor when they were in hyperspace Legend, the other instances I'm pretty sure the ships simply fell on to the planet in real space. Trying to argue if Ziost is bigger than Pammant is futile, neither have any stated diameter sizes so that point is moot, you have to go with the "minimum" planet size which are Earth sized. Ziost's moon's being small could just be that Ziost's Moons are smaller than ours.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What are you talking about? Everything I said about Palpatine applies to legends, and by your reasoning, he is without a doubt the most powerful being in legends.
Darths Plagueis and Sidious jointly conducted a ritual that spanned months, this ritual tilted the balance of the Force in favor of the Dark Side. And this disruption was responsible for negatively influencing Jedi farsight abilities.
Also, Sidious's hype in Legends Continuity have been challenged by SWTOR, The Ones, and Abeloth. You have not been paying enough attention, have you?
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The force didn't spawn any champion of light for Vitiate. It just let the galaxy run its course and do its normal business. Vitiate, agent of darkness, then someone comes to stop him, hence the word inevitable. However, Sidious corrupted the force to such an extent that, for the first time, the force itself had to directly interfere and spawn a chosen one to bring about Palps downfall, because inevitable just wasn't the case unless the force acted to stop him. Palpatine didn't just corrupt planets, he corrupted the entire force, bending it and the entire galaxy to his will.
The Force didn't just run its course, it always strives for balance. Vitiate is implied to have disrupted the balance, and this is why several champions of light emerged to challenge him at different points in time. Keep in mind that Vitiate was supremely powerful in the Dark Side since childhood, he was naturally gifted in the use of Dark Side. It seems that the Force willed his birth. No idea why.
Revan's existence isn't a coincidence either. When Vitiate began to influence galactic events, Revan was ready and interfered. Though Revan was not able to stop Vitiate in combat, he held him back long enough for the Republic and Jedi to recuperate, prepare for any eventuality, and strike back more effectively when the time comes.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And he can summon space/time shattering attacks instantaneously. Vitiate can't.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Vitiate is powerful though. Definitely the second most powerful dark sider despite being leagues below Sidious, but that's not a bad thing. People need to stop lowballing Vitiate.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDThe time it would take to destroy the planet is irrelevant, and the longer it takes, the more energy would be required to power the storm.
Just a single documented evidence would save you lot of time. Trust me.To kill a world, a Force Storm of a certain size and intensity is required. And we have not witnessed a Force Storm of such proportions yet. The best we have is a claim of Luke Skywalker.
The largest and most powerful Force Storm that Palpatine conjured was near Pinnacle Moon Base, right? Well, he used it to attack this moon:
"...look below...Look what is happening to your pitiful moon." (Darth Sidious to Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa Solo)
While it is correct that Luke and Leia disrupted Palpatine's control over this Force Storm, and it steered away from its designated path. It is also apparent that even this Force Storm couldn't kill Pinnacle Moon Base swiftly.
Do the math.
Correction: 4000 m.Frikken Pammant, size unknown, you must learn to pay attention.Also, what planet is this? How big? Planets significantly vary in size.
Similar events have occurred on different planets. And these planets remained stable, their cores weren't fractured.
Provide examples please.
My point is that a Force Storm potent enough to destroy any vessel in its path, didn't destroy Coruscant. It is valid.No its not, because its not the full extent of his power and he had no intention of destroying the planet. This isn't difficult to understand.