Originally posted by Sinious
I never thought Natemha was like that but since we have no info on it, I guess this is the way to explain it.
Haven't you read the Revan novel? Revan and Nyriss both outright tell us that Vitiate and hundreds of Sith Lords partook in a days-long ritual that Vitiate promised would restore the Sith Empire to glory. Long story short, the ritual ended with Vitiate Ziost'ing those Sith Lords and the planet they were on. AKA Nathema.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Haven't you read the Revan novel? Revan and Nyriss both outright tell us that Vitiate and hundreds of Sith Lords partook in a days-long ritual that Vitiate promised would restore the Sith Empire to glory. Long story short, the ritual ended with Vitiate Ziost'ing those Sith Lords and the planet they were on. AKA Nathema.
LOL that's not the point. Natemha always seemed like a ritual focusing solely on the living and the force itself. In Ziost, lots of buildings have been damaged as well. So we're trying to figure out if there is any difference between the 2 drain attacks.
So essentially this is what happened?
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060519122248/starwars/images/f/fc/Katarrdevastation.jpg
Vitiate's ritual produced the same effects on Nathema as Katarr with prep. Katarr ended with the devastation of the cities. Aren't all three very similar. (So I don't have to go through over a dozen pages of this thread).
LOL that's not the point. Natemha always seemed like a ritual focusing solely on the living and the force itself. In Ziost, lots of buildings have been damaged as well. So we're trying to figure out if there is any difference between the 2 drain attacks.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
So essentially this is what happened?http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060519122248/starwars/images/f/fc/Katarrdevastation.jpg
Vitiate's ritual produced the same effects on Nathema as Katarr with prep. Katarr ended with the devastation of the cities. Aren't all three very similar. (So I don't have to go through over a dozen pages of this thread).
I'm not sure if Natemha and Katarr are the same tbh.
They are very similar. However, I don't recall Natemha ritual having any effect on the city structures.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah as I said the buildings were intact, they just describe it as a ghost town, I recall no mention of damage. Ziost is more like Katarr, but tbh Katarr is on a whole other level, Nihilus laid waste to everything.*shrug* everyone died in all instances, so I'm not sure why the destruction varies...
On Katarr, entire biota wasn't consumed like on Ziost and atmosphere remained intact. Visas Marr, in particular, survived. Katarr event based images demonstrate destruction with greater clarity though. But Ziost experienced greater destruction with its entire biota gone, atmosphere gone, and much of the infrastructure devastated.
Indeed:
Global cataclysms are not unheard of. Whole worlds teeming with life have been rendered lifeless by meteorites, broken apart by instability in the planet's own core--even atomized by the destructive force of a supernova. But the eerie calm of a world stripped of life yet left otherwise intact is another matter altogether. Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Let me get one thing straight, I do not ignore official disclosures. I understand the importance of official disclosures because I use them to support my arguments, and this is the only method to formulate credible arguments. This being said, I also take lore related developments seriously. Newer content tends to either reaffirm, build-on, or retcon earlier content.It can be noticed that ever since characters such as Vitiate, The Ones, and Abeloth have been introduced to the mythos, Sidious's promotion as the most powerful Sith Lord and/or practitioner of the Dark Side have taken a back seat. In the few sourcebooks where these characters are referenced, Sidious is not hyped in the aforementioned manner. This does not means that Sidious is not counted among the best but that he have peers.
The most powerful Force-users/beings are:-
TIER 1
- Vitiate
- Darth Sidious
- Abeloth
- Father
- Son
- Daughter
- World RazerTIER 2
- Darth Nihilus
- Tulak Hord
- Luke Skywalker
- Darth NoxTo be honest, I regard these matters as story elements that have more basis in philosophy then on character-oriented mechanics.
Practitioners of the Dark Side tend to create imbalance. This is why eliminating them, philosophically restores balance.
Keep this in mind:
The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted. But it was always there in some way, shape, or form.
Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Vitiate was extraordinarily powerful since childhood:
The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Also, TOR era content doesn't explores the matters of balance of the Force much. However, Vitiate is implied as a source of imbalance.
"The Force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness and destruction. It is inevitable that a champion of the light will one day rise to oppose him. I may be that champion."
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Also, I don't recall Vitiate attempting rituals to actively disrupt the balance. He didn't need to, his mere presence created imbalance by virtue of the aforementioned quote.
That is hyperbole.
If that was the case then that Force Storm would no have dissipated after consuming Sidious and his vessel.
Fact is that only Vitiate have on-screen demonstration of killing a planet so far. And also Vitiate summoned his most destructive powers on short notice.
Also, I don't get your bottom statement. It is really silly. Vitiate unleashed a tsunami of destructive dark side energy that engulfed the entire planet in less then a minute. And it is absolutely valid power for versus scenarios. [/B]
Sidious was the source of the power. In fact, he was defined by such energy according to the DE endnotes. So, yes, with the source of the power gone, then the storm would logically disappear, as it did. The source was very clear on the threat Sidious's power posed had he not been stopped, there's nothing hyperbolic about something that's confirmed to what would have happened. Nothing you can say can override that. If you want to go there, I can dismiss many of Vitiate's with the same reasoning.
Actually, Nihilus beats Vitiate, since Nihilus did it upon arrival. People are so worked up over Vitiate's feat because it happens onscreen and looks flashier then it would in a comic. If Vitiate can use such power instantly, then prove it, because if he can't, no one would wait for him to do it (I'm referring to Sidious level opponents of course). All consuming reality tearing storm >>> planetary tsunami. Common sense.
Vitiate's child hood is meaningless. The quote you gave was clear, the force waited for the inevitable--a light side champion. With Sidious, the force directly involved itself and HAD to create it's own, making Sidious's death the most important prophecy to be fulfilled in the entire mythos. Curious, why didn't the force act in the same manner with Vitiate?
Nothing Vitiate has done contradicts Palpatine's placement as the most powerful sith. There's also no canon source that states the ones of Mortis can't be surpassed after they're dead (other than the father), therefore Palpatine being referred to as the dark side's most powerful expression may just be the truth. Vitiate's quotes refer to his time. That said, he's still only the second most powerful SITH. Sadly, though, he's still way below Palpatine per feats and quotes, and the threat they both posed to the force. Also, the Essential Chronologic has been updated since Vitiate was introduced to the mythos, and the quote about Sidious being the most powerful is still there, not that it matter, though.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD😐 There would appear to be some ground realities you need to educate yourself on.
Katarr isn't on a whole new level, rather inferior showing.On Katarr, entire biota wasn't consumed like on Ziost and atmosphere remained intact. Visas Marr, in particular, survived. Katarr event based images demonstrate destruction with greater clarity though. But Ziost experienced greater destruction with its entire biota gone, atmosphere gone, and much of the infrastructure devastated.
Source: The Complete Star Wars EncyclopediaI can assure you the rumour has been confirmed:Darth Nihilus was known as the Lord of Hunger and was noted for his ability to literally consume the Force energy of his victims, which was used to sustain his own life energies. It was rumored that he could consume the Force energy of an entire planet.
Source: Unseen, UnheardWhen my Lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died
Source: The Complete Star Wars EncyclopediaDarth Nihilus began his Jedi purge by obliterating the planet of Katarr, where a secret conclave of the most powerful Jedi were taking place.
Source: Jedi Exile KOTOR IITo kill on such a scale... it's impossible. I don't understand - it would have taken several Republic cruisers to destroy the surface of Katarr.
Source: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign GuideAs Nihilus greedy consumes entire planets life energies, the dark side macerates him even faster.
Source: Visas Marr KOTOR IIIf there are no Jedi here, then my Lord cannot feed his hunger. He will destroy the planet, the station, he will cleanse it of life. Even if the people below are not Force Sensitive, the small amount he can feed on from the mass destruction of the station, and the life of the planet, will sustain him a while longer.
Source: Power Beyond Belief: Using Ultra-Powerful Sith Lords in Saga EditionIt is also implied that Nihilus chose to spare Visas, and indeed there is no other reason why she would have lived and everything else died.Darth Nihilus is literally a destroyer of worlds, powered by an insatiable hunger that drives him to consume greater and greater populations.
Fact is Nihilus devastated the entire planet anddrained it completely of life. Vitiate merely managed to cause structural damage, Nihilus ravaged and decimated the entire surface. Bearing in mind that although the atmosphere was left intact, so was the atmosphere of Ziost and Nathema.
So how as Vitiate surpassed this in any way?
Originally posted by The Merchant
Darth Nihilus isn't the strongest Sith. if you're taking what Traya says at face value she thinks that in his prime he would only rival some of the Ancient Sith she mentioned.
Feats > Words
Nihilus has no counter, he can instantly devour an entity's connection to the force and life itself.
